Re: How much is too much?
From: jashburne (jashburneaol.com)
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 16:33:56 -0700 (PDT)
Agree.  The pace of technology development was much slower starting right after the adoption of ABS in ‘86 or up until the late 00’s or so. It seems as though through the 90’s and into the late 00’s most of the changes were mainly in the areas of gps, Bluetooth and other screen based devices and then around 2010 or so we saw big changes in horsepower as well as driver’s aids (for better or worse).  

The problem is that all of the new technology brought performance that really can’t be used fully on the road and at the cost of higher maintenance costs, particularly once the warranty has expired. 

John

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 8, 2018, at 1:36 PM, Lashdeep Singh via Ferrari <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> wrote:

I agree and feel the same.

I have been putting off buying a new performance car for 12 yrs because there has been so much progress since 2005 or so.

Even developments from 2013 are ancient history now...

On Sep 8, 2018, at 18:23, scott saidel <scott_saidel [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

Not just exotics. Was looking to buy my next commuter car. Thinking about a lease - in expectation of way better tech in 3 years.  

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On Sep 8, 2018, at 1:10 PM, Lashdeep Singh via Ferrari <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> wrote:

Nobody wants a used AMG because they are poorly engineered and constructed.

Why spend $15k on a car that had an MSRP of $100k only 7 yrs before when it costs $1000/month to maintain?

I buy them as cheap beaters and live with the endless problems.

A lot of the newer exotic car owners are driving them everywhere. They just don’t keep them very long it because technology is changing much faster than it did in the old days.

LSJ

On Sep 8, 2018, at 12:03, Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

The problem is that the majority of people who bought the cars,Ferrari Porsche and the like 
Bought them as show pieces not to drive them.
Bragging rights for the street 
It used to be watches, now it’s this.
I have over 107k on my 93 512 TR and people when they see me in it say
You drive that thing?
I mean what did you buy it for?
I am planning on a 2k trip to PHL this month to visit a friend in the car 
It’s like the guy who has a super model girlfriend, and she tells her friends, he doesn’t even touch me!
Go figure 
As a parting shot
The FML drives the BS meter on the pricing and collectibles along with Jay Leno.
Look for a story shortly from me on lister, whom I help sell his pristine 308 with Daytona interior and R-134 conversion at a price no where near what they as so call asking for in the yellow sh*t rag FML.
This car was expertly maintained and absolutely beautiful in ever sense of the word.

Got to to go guys





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Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

Clyde Romero    


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On Sep 8, 2018, at 2:29 AM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

I suppose there is no easy or simple answer to how much of a hit an owner should take, should their vehicle have really high mileage. Understanding, of course, that you say, regardless of condition – even if an owner has been fastidious in it’s care, like treating the leather and applying multiple coats of wax to the paint, etc – miles are miles. It probably comes down to whether or not they’re in it for resale value, or just have the car because they like/love it and couldn’t care less what it’s worth and how much mileage it has when it comes time to sell.

 

Yet, I was intrigued at how a number of F’Listers posted six figure mileages.

 

There was that story a while ago of that gentleman who owned a 308 GT4 with 200K+ miles on the odometer appearing in Forza magazine (I believe the famous author and collector Jess Pouret also owned a 308 GT4 that had 200K+ KM on it’s ododmeter). Both cars looked to be in great condition and that is a reflection of those owners who carefully took care of the cars. Yes, exceptions, considering far too many were driven to the ground by those who were in it for the flash of the badge on the nose.

 

Funny you mention rarity, because a few years ago when Ford GTs became THE car to collect, every one that came to auction, or was posted for sale privately, all seemed to have no more than 500 miles on the odometer. Some even had only delivery mileage! The rare ones are the few guys who actually drove them! A former Ferrari owner here in Vancouver bought one when they came out and just loves the thing. Last I heard, the car had five figures on the odometer. It still looks like new.

 

Peter

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 


From: Brian E. Buxton <BrianBuxton [at] BuxtonMotorsports.com>
Sent: Friday, September 7, 2018 10:30:33 PM
To: Peter Rychel
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] How much is too much?
 

From my experience the lower the mileage the higher the value ... even on cars that aren't really collectible.  Low mileage becomes more and more rare each passing week, month or year.  And unless someone really abuses a vehicle, lower mileage cars will always be nicer, cleaner, and more original inside and out.  Low mileage almost always equates to better condition, more originality and "correct."  There is nothing wrong with driving and enjoying a vehicle, but no matter how meticulous an owner is there is no way that a 100,000 mile vehicle will be as nice (paint, carpet, interior etc.) or original (engine compartment stickers, and even the new car / leather smell) as a 1,000 mile car. 

It is true that age will require hoses, belts, tires, etc. to be changed, as does heavy use - so you are at a wash there.  And oil leaks can occur on even brand new cars - I've seen new Range Rovers leaking power steering fluid on the showroom floor.  What you really pay for in exceptionally low mileage vehicles is (original) condition and rarity.

And mileage does affect price and salability - as an example, AMG Mercedes become increasingly difficult to sell after they rack up 60,000 - 70,000 miles, as do exotics.  One reason is that so many buyers think they don't "need" the extra power so they choose a less expensive SL500 over an SL63.  Or they worry about maintenance costs, so they choose an S550 over an S65.  Higher mileage also causes buyers to avoid certain cars for two different reasons - one is the people who want the rarity and performance of a Ferrari can usually afford to buy something newer or with very low miles, so they avoid higher mileage cars.  The other group wants the look and the "ego boost" of an exotic, and higher mileage examples are in their price range, but many times they can't afford the maintenance, insurance costs etc. associated with those cars.  Some become so low in value that they make more sense as parts cars than drivers - who would buy a $3,000 Porsche 944 and then pay $3,000 every 5 - 6 years for timing belt services?  And that doesn't include tires, a clutch, a/c repairs, power steering leaks, window repairs, etc. that will come along with a car from the 1980's.

-- 
Brian E. Buxton 








On 8/26/18 12:08 AM, Peter Rychel wrote:

As was discussed on this list last weekend, many Listers posted how much mileage they have on their cars, prompted by Matt Boyd’s recent insurance appraisal. I was quite surprised at how many of you have cars into the six-figure mileage amounts. That’s impressive.

 

Reading this article though, gives me thought of how much is too much mileage in regards to value. How much penalty should an owner expect to get on the sale price of their car? And really, should it matter at all? It seems car values are based on condition, rather than simply on odometer totals (and if a car happens to have racked up 100K+ mi yet is in spectacular shape, does it deserve a lower sales price just because of the substantial mileage?).

 

It seems to be quite a shame that such amazing cars have been parked all of their life. Good thing none of them are rare and there are plenty of similar examples on the market with “normal” mileages on them:

 

www.classicdriver.com - why you should invest in low mileage classics

 

Peter

 

P.S. Here’s my odometer. I took it last weekend, but didn’t bother posting it as I passed the Friday contest deadline!:

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


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