Re: FW: Regen breaking
From: Robert Garven (rgarvengmail.com)
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 10:53:52 -0800 (PST)
You guys are lucky he closest I got to my jet fighter dream was a back seat ride in a T6!



On Dec 4, 2018, at 10:26 AM, Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

I totally agree 
The 101 was great to look at 
But that’s it
It had the handling characteristics of a drunk !
Pitch up and it needed half flaps so bad you could taste it 
Fast in a straight line but took the state of Iowa to turn it around !
A lot of guys died trying to fly that thing 
In the traffic pattern no less 




     RF4-4EVR

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

Clyde Romero    


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This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com or  by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.

On Dec 4, 2018, at 12:48 PM, Luke Graves <buyer1 [at] airmail.net> wrote:

Actually, it was a POS!  I know, as I had 1200, hrs in it!  The F-86 and F-4 were much better airplanes.  I think that Clyde would agree.
 
Luke


From: Erik Nielsen [mailto:judge4re [at] gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 11:28 AM
To: Luke Graves
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] FW: Regen breaking

Ah the 101, one of my favorite planes.  

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018, 9:43 AM Luke Graves <buyer1 [at] airmail.net wrote:
Thanks guys, you made my day!  Hand/eye coordination still good, hope to do some hot laps at COTA when I hit my 90th!!!
 
Luke Graves
Lt/Col USAF (Ret)
Past President
Hill Country Chapter FCA


From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+buyer1=airmail.net [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Clarence Romero Jr.
Sent: Tuesday, December 4, 2018 8:10 AM
To: Col Luke Graves
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] FW: Regen breaking

I hear ya Boss
When I heard they shoot hands off I said never me! 



     RF4-4EVR

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

Clyde Romero    


Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.
This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com or  by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.

On Dec 4, 2018, at 8:48 AM, Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:

I expected no less.  There are few around who defy the “Old/Bold Fighter Pilot” yarn.  

CLyDe, Here’s where I insert my gratuitous dig on the current generation of “hand off cat launchers”.   Does that make the “Electric Bug” an automatic?   

On Dec 4, 2018, at 04:47, Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

He is a dying breed Peter one of the last real fighter pilots 
What did you expect !
 He Flew 101’s and All the rest of the real fighters 
He doesn’t get much better then that in my opinion 
Good on ya Boss 80 plus and still going !



     RF4-4EVR

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

Clyde Romero    


Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.
This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com or  by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.

On Dec 4, 2018, at 1:26 AM, Peter Pless <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au> wrote:

83 and driving a stick 360?? Bravo!!!! Absolutely awesome.

From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+ferrarilist=pless.com.au [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Luke Graves
Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2018 3:41 PM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: [Ferrari] FW: Regen breaking


From: Luke Graves [mailto:buyer1 [at] airmail.net]
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:40 PM
To: 'Peter Pless'
Subject: RE: [Ferrari] Regen breaking

Though about getting an 812.  Twenty five k down, no price confirmation and a 3 year wait!  At 83, I'm not sure about the 3 year wait.  I can just see it; I'm lying there in the nursing home and my boys come in and say: Dad your 812 is here!"  So, they wheel me out to look at it.  Not a really good scenario.  I am really happy with my 360 and love the stick shift.

Love to all of you Ferrari guys,

Luke


From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+buyer1=airmail.net [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Peter Pless
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:21 PM
To: Col Luke Graves
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking

What we want and what we get are two different things…..sometimes.

I’m all for a front (or rear) normally aspirated V12 with kers…the sound and the power…awesome, but I fear that the 812 might be the last normally aspirated V12 to come from Ferrari. Would be nice if I’m wrong.

From: Luke Graves [mailto:buyer1 [at] airmail.net]
Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2018 3:13 PM
To: 'Peter Pless'
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: RE: [Ferrari] Regen breaking

You probably put green pesto on your cereal!  Anybody that has a pair wants a front engine V-12!!!


From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+buyer1=airmail.net [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Peter Pless
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 9:55 PM
To: Col Luke Graves
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking

It’s the way of the future! The La Ferrari is already hybrid…and there are more coming!

From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+ferrarilist=pless.com.au [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Luke Graves
Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2018 12:23 PM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking

Good ideas and Fuck electric vechicles!  Enough of this shit. This is a Ferrari forum!!!

Luke


From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+buyer1=airmail.net [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Rick Moseley
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 6:15 PM
To: Col Luke Graves
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking

I don't have "a dog in the fight" and don't intend to have an electric car anytime soon.  I have my thoughts on them but will keep them to myself.

But I have some observations, history and thoughts moving forward.

Brake lights through most of their history were a function of the brake pedal alone... switch on the pedal or in the fluid path (I think we can all agree on that).  I think it was technology of the times and has suited us well.

More and more people today drive like IDIOTS and are often driving under the influence of a substance or a distraction (food, makeup, razors, drinks, kids, phones, blowjobs, etc).

Given the technology of today (simple chip accelerometers), electric car or not, I think a "slow down" light would be most beneficial to everyone on the road behind said idiots, druggies, drunks and distracted drivers.  This could occur whether in regen or just foot off the loud pedal engine braking.

So, I'm thinking.... a blinking brake light when slowing, solid light when pedal depressed....  maybe just the high mounted 3rd brake light for this function so as to delineate these modes...

Just an idea....

Thoughts, concerns?


From: Hans E. Hansen <FList [at] hanshansen.org>
To: Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking

OK, your points one by one:

1.  Not sure about a Volt not REALLY being an electric car.  The
entire drivetrain to the wheels is all electric.  It uses a 110KW
electric motor/generator.  The ICE (which is 84hp) just powers a
smaller generator if needed.  It's 55KW , and is used to recharge the
16.5KWh battery if necessary.

2.  I already outlined the regen forces in the volt.  It is much
stronger than the engine braking in most gas engine cars.  Read what I
said.  It is enough to hold the car back on a 25% grade.  That is a
lot.  Much stronger than the deceleration that you would get in a 308
Ferrari in 1st gear.  The only gas car that I have driven with greater
engine braking is 1st gear in my 4.L Maserati. Regen is up to 75KW,
which is A LOT!!!!  In city driving, because of slower speeds, regen
is closer to 30-35KW.  That's like having a 40hp engine suddenly
kicking into reverse. It not as much as a Tesla, but more than most
other electric cars, like the Nissan Leaf for example.  And far, far
more than a Prius.  OK, you can claim that a Prius is not an electric
car, but it's reason for existing is to convert via regeneration it's
kinetic energy while slowing down into electricity to be stored in
it's small battery to propel it back up to speed when the stop light
turns back to green.  Again, it exists solely to take advantage of
regeneration.

3.  Electric range on the Gen1 cars (2011-2015) is about 35 miles.
Gen2 cars (2016 to present) is 45 to perhaps 50 miles.  Compare that
to the all electric Gen1 Leaf, which had a range of about 70 miles.  I
think the newer ones have a bigger battery.  I drove my Gen1 for
nearly 7 months without using a drop of gasoline.

4.  According to Wikipedia, sales of the Volt were 177,000 units as of
the date of the article.  Hardly a niche vehicle.

OK, go bury your head back in the sand.

Hans.


On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 9:21 PM Peter Pless <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au> wrote:
>
> Well, let’s face it, a Volt isn’t REALLY an electric car, is it now? Not in the modern sense of the word….so I was right.
>
> If there isn’t a petrol motor in the Volt, I’ll tell you I was wrong, but I’m not.
>
> I doubt the regen is very strong on the Volt, otherwise the brake light not coming on would have brought a class action against GM from all the rear enders. Sounds like it just does about as much braking as changing down a gear does…..and no  car has a brake light for that.
>
> Almost zero Volts (good pun) sold here because everyone knew they were rubbish from the start anyway. Are they even still made? I mean, what’s the electric range of one? 10km before the ICE kicks in?
>
>
>
> From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+ferrarilist=pless.com.au [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Hans E. Hansen
> Sent: Monday, 3 December 2018 2:19 PM
> To: Peter Pless
> Cc: The FerrariList
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking
>
>
>
> Quote :
>
>
>
> "The brake lights most certainly come on when you use regen on an electric car. The fact that some of you thought that it was possible that they DON'T is astounding"
>
>
>
> What "facts" are you referring to again?
>
>
>
> Hans.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 2, 2018, 7:13 PM Hans E. Hansen <FList [at] hanshansen.org> wrote:
>
> Uh, your "facts" stated that all electric cars have brake lights on regen......
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 2, 2018, 6:40 PM Peter Pless <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au> wrote:
>
> What's wrong with you?
> My facts are perfectly straight.
> If you're telling me that the Volt doesn’t put on the brake lights under heavy regen, you'd better sue GM. What a ridiculous oversight.
> All the other electric cars do that I've driven and heard about, as you would realistically expect.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hans E. Hansen [mailto:FList [at] hanshansen.org]
> Sent: Monday, 3 December 2018 10:29 AM
> To: Peter Pless; The FerrariList
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking
>
> RIGHT!  Get your facts straight.
>
> Check out the Volt forums.  None of the cars has a brake light on
> regen. I guess this means that they are ALL defective.  It was a long
> topic of conversation a couple of years back.
>
> Hans.
> On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 3:26 PM Peter Pless <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > Then there's something wrong with your car....OR....the regen is as weak as engine braking.
> > The electric cars I've driven have the brake lights come on as soon as there is enough regen to equate to using a brake pedal.
> >
> > Next time you try to be assertive, maybe get your facts right.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hans E. Hansen [mailto:FList [at] hanshansen.org]
> > Sent: Monday, 3 December 2018 9:58 AM
> > To: Peter Pless; The FerrariList
> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking
> >
> > ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!!!
> >
> > I taped a piece of foil near the center brake light on my Volt so I could see it reflect in my rear view mirror.  Step on brakes, I can see the light on.  Lift throttle (regen), NO LIGHT!
> >
> > Next time you try and guess an answer, get a car and experiment first.
> >
> > Hans.
> > On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 2:46 PM Peter Pless <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au> wrote:
> > >
> > > The brake lights most certainly come on when you use regen on an electric car. The fact that some of you thought that it was possible that they DON'T is astounding!
> > >
> > > And then, once you've stopped, you can put your foot on the brake pedal so that the brake lights are on....just like in any other car.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ferrari
> > > [mailto:ferrari-bounces+ferrarilist=pless.com.au [at] ferrarilist.com] On
> > > Behalf Of jashburne--- via Ferrari
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2018 10:09 PM
> > > To: Peter Pless
> > > Cc: The FerrariList
> > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking
> > >
> > > I’m surprised that the brake lights aren’t programmed to come on when the motor is actively slowing down the car. Sounds dangerous if not.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > > On Nov 27, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Hans E. Hansen <FList [at] hanshansen.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn't call it severe.  Think of the throttle (rheostat?) as
> > > > having a neutral position, which is part way down.  Push further,
> > > > it accelerates.  More push, more acceleration.  Lift throttle is similar.
> > > > Lift a little, gradual decel, etc.
> > > >
> > > > As for the brake light issue, my recent Thanksgiving trip to
> > > > Portland gave me the opposite problem.  I was in stop and go congestion on I-5.
> > > > I'd lift to slow, but because the brake lights don't come on, cars
> > > > behind me had no idea that I had started slowing until it became
> > > > very obvious.  Given the congestion and that people tend to follow
> > > > way too close, I thought this could be dangerous, so I "shifted"
> > > > into regular "drive" (simulating a gas car with an auto trans)
> > > > which forced me to use the brake pedal to slow even slightly.
> > > > Thus lighting up the brake lights and warning people behind me.
> > > >
> > > > Hans.
> > > >> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 10:23 PM Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> So, every time you let off the accelerator pedal, the regen kicks in and it’s that severe?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Peter
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ________________________________
> > > >> From: Ferrari
> > > >> <ferrari-bounces+dino308gt4=hotmail.com [at] ferrarilist.com> on
> > > >> behalf of Hans E. Hansen <FList [at] hanshansen.org>
> > > >> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 9:49:45 AM
> > > >> To: PeterGT4
> > > >> Cc: The FerrariList
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking
> > > >>
> > > >> FWIW, the regen in a Chevy Volt is fairly strong, strong enough
> > > >> that I only use the brake (NOT break) pedal for the final 20 feet
> > > >> or so to come to a complete stop in normal traffic.
> > > >>
> > > >> Hans.
> > > >>> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 11:22 PM Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> How much drag does it feel when you lift off the accelerator pedal? Like, it’s going to come to a complete dead stop very, very quickly?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I wonder if cars like this (I’m talking street cars here, not F1) are designed for people who left-foot brake. Like maybe not such a dramatic lift-your-entire-foot-off-of-the-gas-pedal and then jamming on the brake, but a gentle relaxing on the “gas” and slightly pressing on the brake, more-or-less at the same time.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> As the years pass and the manual transmission disappears off the road, nearly everyone are driving automatics now and I’ve noticed, especially with younger, newer drivers that they’re using their left feet for braking. How can I tell? From the continuous blinking of the brake lights, yet not noticeable drop in speed as they drive along a busy route. It’s not that they’re trying to slow down, but only moderate their speed as they go along. It’s incredibly annoying.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Peter
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ________________________________
> > > >>> From: Ferrari
> > > >>> <ferrari-bounces+dino308gt4=hotmail.com [at] ferrarilist.com> on
> > > >>> behalf of Stephen Sherman <stephensherman44 [at] gmail.com>
> > > >>> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 12:36:22 PM
> > > >>> To: PeterGT4
> > > >>> Cc: The FerrariList
> > > >>> Subject: [Ferrari] Regen breaking
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I have learned what F1 drivers experience (not to the extent that F1 do) when the commentators talk regenerative breaking. In my Tesla ( standard regen ) I normally take my foot off the accelerator and the Tesla deaccelerates like I am braking. I am not sure if depends on the state of charge of the battery or the temperature or a combination of the two, but there is NO or not desernable regen braking. There is a message when I first start to drive that ‘regen braking is limited ‘, not after I have experienced full regen braking during my drive then when I take my foot off the accelerator NO regen. It would be nice to have the message ‘regen braking limited ‘ on the screen, so I would be braking harder. Just an observation.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Stephen L Sherman
> > > >>> Sent from my iPad Pro
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