Re: EBay vs BaT
From: Charles Perry (charlescarolinasound.com)
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2019 05:22:21 -0800 (PST)
Excellent point, and one I'm painfully familiar with. I bought a car on BaT 
this summer and it jumped about $25k in the last 20 minutes due to the end 
counter resetting and serious lurker bidders finally jumping in. I expected 
that, and I'm still overall pleased with where we ended, but there are plenty 
of cars that look like a bargain going into the last 5 minutes of a BaT auction 
that turn out far from bargain.

Sort of like eBay, I'm always amazed that anyone bids early. I don't know that 
it really affects the end price, but it's kind of like tipping your hand.

Of course, a lot of those are people who have no intention or ability to buy 
the car and just think it's cute to bid $19,911 for a 2019 Porsche 911, knowing 
there's no chance that makes reserve.

And you're right - BaT comments are gold!

-- charles


-----Original Message-----
From: Cody Laird [mailto:ecl3 [at] me.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 6:41 AM
To: Charles Perry
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
Subject: Re: EBay vs BaT

Charles,

Your review of BaT is spot on save one feature that separates it from EBay: 
last second bids reset the clock to two minutes. This is more akin to a live 
auction where the auctioneer says third and last time and a new bid is offered. 

Watching my Mondial t coupe with Clyde miles on the car (~102k) that just sold 
for 47,500 was a great example. There were over 20 bids in the last seconds. It 
was as close to an in person auction with peanut gallery commentary to boot. 
Exciting.

Maybe just maybe, and I’ll get flamed for this thought I’m sure, that some in 
the market realize a car driven regularly At a reasonable annual rate (3000 
miles/year) is more reliable and marketable than one that sits around. 

To all F-listers, I hope you have a very Happy New Year!

Best,
Cody

Sent from my PDP-8


> On Dec 31, 2019, at 6:16 AM, ferrari-request [at] ferrarilist.com wrote:
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>   1. Re: Ebay prices (Charles Perry)
> 
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 18:28:33 +0000
> From: Charles Perry <charles [at] carolinasound.com>
> To: Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com>
> Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ebay prices
> Message-ID:
>    
> <228C6E1BCD60FC4BAB9722FD5F3C96F1014444EAAB@CSC-SBS7-SRVR.CarolinaSound.local>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> For the record, Bring a Trailer does use reserves and most cars have them. 
> Typically they will make it clear in the headline listing if it is a No 
> Reserve car. The difference is that when you list a car with BaT, you have to 
> work with them to set the reserve. They want cars to sell, they know what 
> they typically go for, and so they help owners be realistic about what it 
> needs to be to actually sell the car. If you're an insane guy that thinks 
> your low miles 2012 Camry SE should reserve at $48k because it has the rare 
> green floor mats instead of the usual black, BaT will refuse your listing.
> 
> They also allow the seller to pull the reserve late in the game if the car is 
> getting close so that you don't lose a sale over $500 or whatever. And if the 
> car doesn't make reserve, they will put the high bidder in touch with the 
> owner and see if they can work things out privately. That actually can save 
> you money since then you don't pay BaT their 5% commission, but it's a nice 
> courtesy to serious car people.
> 
> So you can see why their model works pretty well. That said, for some reason 
> I don't feel like Ferraris bring as much on BaT as they sometimes do 
> elsewhere, but that's essentially Clyde's point ? a disproportionate number 
> of us think our cars are worth more than they might be.
> 
> -- charles
> 
> 
> From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+charles=carolinasound.com [at] 
> ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Clarence Romero Jr.
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 8:09 AM
> To: Charles Perry
> Cc: The FerrariList
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ebay prices
> 
> In my opinion the true market is Bring a Trailer
> Without question
> That?s where the rubber meets the road so to speak
> If your car is worth what you think it is you will get your price
> You don?t set a reserve and the car goes
> Period no BS
> Auctions have too much hype associated with it and Cav and FML are doing meth!
> I will give you an example
> This Saturday a guy shows up with a 512Bi they were all euro cars
> His was a good one from Canada he paid $75k for it 7 years ago
> The asking price now in FML is around $270-300k
> He opened the hood on the car
> Sorry guys it?s a 12 cylinder 1982 308 yes Virginia
> Same poorly designed stuff on the this car
> Me, I am not paying anywhere near that for a car with no ABS marginal A/C and 
> the list goes on, he even had the TRX tires on it which suck, I had them on 
> my BMW M-6;
> Yea I know
> Too each there own
> The car had 20,000 Kms on it
> It was a moving bomb
> The only saving grace is that the car was owned by the guy who makes the 
> beefed up tranaxles for the TR
> So it had that going for it
> Sorry for the long rant
> 
> Happy New Years guys
> 
> 
> 
> [http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d50199eadaa3846040c76511e/images/Screen_shot_2013_05_29_at_9.18.02_AM.png]
>      RF4-4EVR
> 
> 
> Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
> 
> If you have no enemies, you have no character !
> 
> Clyde Romero
> 
> 
> Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by 
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, 
> and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and 
> may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any unauthorized review, 
> use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is 
> prohibited.
> This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages 
> attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.  If 
> you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it 
> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, 
> copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to 
> this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received this transmission 
> in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyderomerof4 [at] 
> gmail.com or  by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original 
> transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.
> 
> 
> On Dec 29, 2019, at 11:50 PM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> 
> wrote:
> ?
> I?ve noticed with RM?s auctions this past year, they sent out their ?lots 
> still for sale? emails with many of the headlining cars still up for grabs. 
> Cars that would?ve easily sold last year or the year before.
> 
> It?ll be interesting to see the upcoming Arizona auctions and what results 
> they will be bring. I?m thinking it?ll be more of the same as this past year 
> (flat).
> 
> On a side note, I was in Vegas last month and I was quite shocked to see all 
> of the high-end stores empty of customers. A good indicator to me that; a) 
> there?s too many of them and b) middle-class discretionary income isn?t as 
> healthy as it?s being touted to be.
> 
> Peter
> 
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
> 
> 
> From: Clarence Romero Jr.<mailto:clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com>
> Sent: December 29, 2019 4:57 PM
> To: PeterGT4<mailto:dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com>
> Cc: The FerrariList<mailto:ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ebay prices
> 
> I don?t know if it will get that low but you never know
> 575 prices are sinking fast
> And the 550 crowd is in denial!
> 
> 
> 
> [http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d50199eadaa3846040c76511e/images/Screen_shot_2013_05_29_at_9.18.02_AM.png]
>      RF4-4EVR
> 
> 
> 
> Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
> 
> If you have no enemies, you have no character !
> 
> Clyde Romero
> 
> 
> Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by 
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, 
> and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and 
> may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any unauthorized review, 
> use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is 
> prohibited.
> This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages 
> attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.  If 
> you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it 
> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, 
> copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to 
> this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received this transmission 
> in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyderomerof4 [at] 
> gmail.com or  by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original 
> transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 29, 2019, at 2:52 PM, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> ?Let me know when a 88.5+Testarossa in grigio becomes available at $45k.  I 
> expect the next economic downturn should have them come out of the woodwork.
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 29, 2019, at 1:30 PM, Michel Savard <mysavard [at] videotron.ca> wrote:
> 
> I?ve been accumulating a few data about the prices of Ferraris 
> (Testarossa-one day I?ll get a 12 cylinders and 360-just being curious) on 
> Ebay. If Ebay is a good yardstick, then prices of Ferraris are getting lower 
> and lower. Or it?s just that people don?t want these models.
> Here are the final prices/bids when they were relisted, most with RESERVE NOT 
> MET (RNM) without any informations on each car:
> 
> Testarossa:
> 1990 red 35,000 / 66255 RNM
> 1992 512 tr black 78,000 / 11886 RNM
> 1988 red 75000 / 80000 / 65000 / 66766 / 70100 / 50900 all RNM
> 1988 white 70700 / 75255 RNM
> 1986 red 10000 / 40000 / 62555 / 50200 RNM
> 1988 burgundy 50000 / 65855 / 55655 RNM
> 
> 1998 355 red spider 40600 RNM
> 
> 360:
> 2002 red spider sold 52,000
> 2001 silver coupe 60100 / 61500m or best offer/ RNM
> 2002 modena black 22100 / 25000 / 20100 / 50100 / 40600 /40100 RNM
> 2001 yellow BUY IT NOW at 45800
> 2001 yellow spider 49800 RNM
> 2003 red 54900 BUY IT NOW
> 2001 red 52200 RNM
> 2001 silver sold at 45950 BUY IT NOW
> 1999 red coupe 59100 RNM
> 
> 456 1997 auto black BUY IT NOW 30750 (today)
> 
> Michael Savard (1981 308 GTSi)
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