Tektronix CRT Oscilloscopes
From: georgedodson (georgedodsoncomcast.net)
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 08:19:16 -0700 (PDT)
One advantage of the Tektronix CRT scopes is that the older models on
roll-around carts double as a space heater.........

Regards,
George


-----Original Message-----
From: Ferrari <ferrari-bounces+georgedodson=comcast.net [at] ferrarilist.com> On
Behalf Of ferrari-request [at] ferrarilist.com
Sent: Monday, June 7, 2021 11:12 AM
To: George Dodson <georgedodson [at] comcast.net>
Subject: Ferrari Digest, Vol 179, Issue 30

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Today's Topics:

   1. Oscilloscopes (georgedodson [at] comcast.net)
   2. Re: Watch_this_guy_swallow_hard + Paul' s fingerprint
      (Clarence Romero Jr.)
   3. Re: Oscilloscopes (Anthony Bauco)
   4. Re: [NFC] Oscilloscopes (Rick Moseley)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 06:56:06 -0400
From: <georgedodson [at] comcast.net>
To: <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: [Ferrari] Oscilloscopes
Message-ID: <27ba01d75b8b$b7dfacb0$279f0610$@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Peter,
I am not quite sure what it is they you hope to learn from this, but you can
find used Tektronics or Agilent oscilloscopes on ebay or ValueTronics. They
have refurbished models in the $2,100 range and used ones in the
several-hundred dollar range. These all run the hundred MHz range which is
way faster than you will ever need.

Regards,
George


-----Original Message-----
From: Ferrari <ferrari-bounces+georgedodson=comcast.net [at] ferrarilist.com> On
Behalf Of ferrari-request [at] ferrarilist.com
Sent: Monday, June 7, 2021 6:16 AM
To: George Dodson <georgedodson [at] comcast.net>
Subject: Ferrari Digest, Vol 179, Issue 29

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        ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com

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Today's Topics:

   1. [NFC] Oscilloscopes (Peter Rychel)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 04:32:23 +0000
From: Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com>
To: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: [Ferrari] [NFC] Oscilloscopes
Message-ID:
        
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MWHPR15MB1758.namprd15.prod.outlook.
com>
        
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

I?ve always wanted to get an oscilloscope as I feel it can be a handy tool
in diagnosing engine running problems, especially with newer fuel injected
cars, as the various sensors and controls aren?t simply on or off switches
but pulse at very high rates.

Obviously the more channels the unit has, the better (although cost goes up
considerably with each channel added). My question is, what minimum
frequency should the unit be capable of measuring in order to evaluate say,
a fuel injector or ignition coil circuit at near max RPM? 10,000Hz?
100,000Hz?

Thanks,

Peter

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 07:26:18 -0400
From: "Clarence Romero Jr." <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com>
To: Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Watch_this_guy_swallow_hard + Paul' s
        fingerprint
Message-ID: <CAC4EB43-46F4-4D90-A6EE-99BACB5E65CB [at] gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Nicely done 



     RF4-4EVR

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

Clyde Romero    


Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by
the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521,
and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and
may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any unauthorized review,
use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is
prohibited.
This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages
attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.
If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for
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disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or
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transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at
Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com or  by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the
original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving
them to disk.

> On Jun 7, 2021, at 12:14 AM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> I had enough of the stock fuse boxes, so I adapted some Hella modular
units using ATC type fuses. I also re-did all of the wire terminals which
was an arduous task (as there was considerable corrosion between where the
wires and the terminals were crimped to each other). The whole works run ice
cold to the touch, even with both rad fans running and everything else.
>  
> Cool thing with these is that you can daisy-chain as many as you like
together. Two groups of two make a perfect replacement for the stock boxes.
>  
> https://www.partdeal.com/hella-30a-5-way-fuse-box-005993032.html
>  
> <FB29D2FB5E214F009519DECE34332FAA.jpg>
>  
> Peter
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
>  
> From: Robert Garven
> Sent: June 6, 2021 5:28 PM
> To: PeterGT4
> Cc: The FerrariList
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Watch_this_guy_swallow_hard + Paul' s 
> fingerprint
>  
> Paul,
>  
> You have been an inspiration to us all! I am keeping the stock panels 
> !  HA
>  
> Rob
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> On Jun 5, 2021, at 1:06 AM, pbennett [at] paul-bennett.com
<pbennett [at] Paul-Bennett.com> wrote:
>  
>     Details of the electrical problem - which is also a problem of the
308:
> 
>     Using a two sided base board, printed copper wiring on both sides,
>     unsoldered copper rivets connecting front and back.  Current can
>     become heavy and the rivets are unable to transfer power from front to
back.
>     Realizing wires into various circuits of the car connect to areas
adjacent 
>     to the rivets. Add relays and you want to cry.
> 
>     Fix - solder the rivets to the printed copper front and back.
Requires 
>     removal but al told not a big deal.   Exception some boards have 4
layers
>     and the layer to layer connection is plated and difficult 
>     to access.
> 
>     Fortunate is the 308 owner who can but and aftermarket
>     fuse panel which has other than Euro Barrels fuses.  They are actually
>     reliable but require yearly maintenance.
> 
>     I heard of a fellow in Colorado who was going to
>     manufacture replacement but substantial boards.            
>     Never heard if it happened. Also heard that Bird sold
>     out his business yet it continues to provide fuse blocks.
> 
>     As for me, at 85 my car is in the wind, my body
>     is weak, but I continue to support the'colorized' 
>     wiring diagrams.  Someone asked if I would raise
>     the price but I'm more likely to drop the price
>     completely, but that price does provide
>     income to pay GoDaddy to store the diagrams for 'yall.
>     And I like the feedback from those many hours of translating
>     the Owner's Manuals (unreadable) diagram to a readable, 
>     understandable thing of beauty. Plus many orders are from
>     outside the US (with NA cars)
> 
>     Someone needs to inject Hallett98 every ten years
>     so here goes.  Miss that month long car trip.  Can't
>     happene again, can you picture us with masks at the 
>     restaurant across from the factory?
>     sigh - paul- (Barbara has passed)
> 
> 
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Watch_this_guy_swallow_hard_??
> > From: Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com>
> > Date: Fri, June 04, 2021 11:26 pm
> > To: Paul Bennett <pbennett [at] paul-bennett.com>
> > Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> > 
> > 
> > Admittedly, the 328 is one of the best out there but they are not
infallible.
> > 
> > The 328, the 3.2 Mondial, Testarossa and later versions all use the same
type of fuse box/relay board which are notoriously delicate and are quite
prone to being overloaded. It?s the kind of situation of not if but when.
Babied cars can last a while, but any that have had some use will inevitably
have some accumulated weakness. What modern car needs their electrical
control/nerve center replaced? Even my POS GM truck still has the same
relays and fuses from 1990 and that truck was abused throughout it?s life
(former workplace parts hauler and on-site service vehicle).
> > 
> > Same goes for the 328 LED climate control buttons which were cool and
high tech in the ?80s, but you?re pretty much SOL if they fail today.
> > 
> > cLyDe?s beloved 512 TR have an underserved cooling system which he
documented upgrading to modern aftermarket rads. Again, I?ve never known a
production-line car needing a radiator upgrade with a stock set-up, unless
there?s been some egregious lack of maintenance (and cLyDe?s car would
definitely be well maintained as it?s lasted this long under his care with
the amount of mileage accumulated. And still...) or, has had some big
performance upgrade. Oooohh, let?s throw in transaxles that self-destruct
because Ferrari cheap'd out by using welded, case-hardened diff?s instead of
forging them in one piece like every other manufacturer out there (that?s if
the input shaft doesn?t shear off before the diff explodes. All well known
design and manufacturing faults).
> > 
> > A lot of praise is heaped on the F1 transmission, but as much as the
final, single clutch variant is probably the most ?reliable? out of the
bunch, what does one do when the bespoke hydraulic components crap out? It?s
well documented how the first gen systems were terrible and parts are NLA.
There?s a genuine reason why the market favors manual cars. cLyDe is adamant
that they?re too weak for these V-12s, but at least if you burn out the
clutch on those, you CAN limp it home (and nurse as much as you can with
clutchless shifts which are totally doable with a syncro box). When the F1
fails, then what? Dial AAA and open yer wallet.
> > 
> > As for the ?60s? With the quality control issues of a fascist workforce,
you take a roll of the dice with that one. The only reason why they?re still
around today is they look pretty and were never cheap/disposable. Although
on that note, one of the old timers in the club here (Alfa guy) had
mentioned when I questioned why so few cars survived, he said ?we just drove
them?. He drove his Alfa Giulietta Zagato even in the winter because it was
his daily driver! When the cars rusted out badly, they parted them out and
scrapped the rest. They weren?t made to last and nobody expected they?d be
worth so much in the future. They bought them because they looked beautiful,
were different than anything else on the road and were fun to drive. BUT,
you always had to work on them, like any car of that era. Nothing was
?reliable?. There were only cars that didn?t break down as much as others.
> > 
> > Peter
> > 
> > Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>; for 
> > Windows 10
> > 
> > 
> > From: Erik Nielsen<mailto:judge4re [at] gmail.com>
> > Sent: June 4, 2021 3:09 PM
> > To: PeterGT4<mailto:dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com>
> > Cc: The FerrariList<mailto:ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Watch this guy swallow hard ??
> > 
> > You?re going to need time to hear the entire list.
> > 
> > It may be easier to say which ones could be considered refined and
reliable by the time they made it into the customer?s hands.
> > 
> > 275 GTS
> > 330 GTC
> > 328 GTB/GTS
> > 512TR
> > 575M with F1
> > 
> > The rest of them have flaws, some of them major.
> > 
> > Ferrari has claimed they make cars similar to mistresses.  The 348 and
355 are in the crack whore category...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Jun 4, 2021, at 4:37 PM, Dominic Carri
<zigzagzoot [at] comcast.net<mailto:zigzagzoot [at] comcast.net>> wrote:
> > 
> > I thought it was the 348 you didn?t like.
> > Now the 355
> > Can you list all of the FIAT era cars and tell us what you think of 
> > each
> > 
> > Zooty
> > 
> > 
> > On Jun 4, 2021, at 12:31 PM, Clarence Romero Jr.
<clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com<mailto:clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > These cars were problematic from day one It?s like Erik said If 
> > Ferrari put a horse on a turd it would sell out!
> > 
> > 
> > https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1997-ferrari-f355-spider-26/
> >
[http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d50199eadaa3846040c76511e/images/Screen_shot_2
013_05_29_at_9.18.02_AM.png]     RF4-4EVR
> > 
> > 
> > Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
> > 
> > If you have no enemies, you have no character !
> > 
> > Clyde Romero
> > 
> > 
> > Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is
covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections
2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is
addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any
unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or
distribution is prohibited.
> > This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email
messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is
priviledged.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible
for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in
or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received
this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at
Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com<mailto:Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> or  by 
telephone at
(678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments
without reading them or saving them to disk.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
[http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d50199eadaa3846040c76511e/images/Screen_shot_2
013_05_29_at_9.18.02_AM.png]     RF4-4EVR
> > 
> > 
> > Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
> > 
> > If you have no enemies, you have no character !
> > 
> > Clyde Romero
> > 
> > 
> > Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is
covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections
2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is
addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any
unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or
distribution is prohibited.
> > This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email
messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is
priviledged.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible
for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that
any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in
or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received
this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at
Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com<mailto:Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> or  by 
telephone at
(678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments
without reading them or saving them to disk.
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> > https://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/zigzagzoot%40c
> > omcast.net
> > 
> > Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com<http://booyahmedia.com/>;
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 07:55:52 -0400
From: Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com>
To: georgedodson [at] comcast.net
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Oscilloscopes
Message-ID:
        <CALj9Yd5-Ay6gJdXOn4cmM_1wM_ZaR0+D1RBabSviiNfrwQy3kA [at] 
mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I would agree with this.  Fluke made a battery powered hand held scope that
would be really good for this purpose.

On Mon, Jun 7, 2021, 6:56 AM <georgedodson [at] comcast.net> wrote:

> Peter,
> I am not quite sure what it is they you hope to learn from this, but 
> you can find used Tektronics or Agilent oscilloscopes on ebay or 
> ValueTronics. They have refurbished models in the $2,100 range and 
> used ones in the several-hundred dollar range. These all run the 
> hundred MHz range which is way faster than you will ever need.
>
> Regards,
> George
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ferrari 
> <ferrari-bounces+georgedodson=comcast.net [at] ferrarilist.com>
> On
> Behalf Of ferrari-request [at] ferrarilist.com
> Sent: Monday, June 7, 2021 6:16 AM
> To: George Dodson <georgedodson [at] comcast.net>
> Subject: Ferrari Digest, Vol 179, Issue 29
>
> Send Ferrari mailing list submissions to
>         ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/listinfo/ferrari
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         ferrari-request [at] ferrarilist.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         ferrari-owner [at] ferrarilist.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific 
> than
> "Re: Contents of Ferrari digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. [NFC] Oscilloscopes (Peter Rychel)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 04:32:23 +0000
> From: Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com>
> To: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> Subject: [Ferrari] [NFC] Oscilloscopes
> Message-ID:
>
>
>
<MWHPR15MB1758B202ECF1A283E7BFDF6BDF389 [at] 
MWHPR15MB1758.namprd15.prod.outlook.
> com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> I?ve always wanted to get an oscilloscope as I feel it can be a handy 
> tool in diagnosing engine running problems, especially with newer fuel 
> injected cars, as the various sensors and controls aren?t simply on or 
> off switches but pulse at very high rates.
>
> Obviously the more channels the unit has, the better (although cost 
> goes up considerably with each channel added). My question is, what 
> minimum frequency should the unit be capable of measuring in order to 
> evaluate say, a fuel injector or ignition coil circuit at near max RPM?
10,000Hz?
> 100,000Hz?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Peter
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 
> Windows
> 10
>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 15:11:43 +0000 (UTC)
From: Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net>
To: Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] [NFC] Oscilloscopes
Message-ID: <1759872066.3021091.1623078703325 [at] mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

 Peter,? 
If space and power are not an issue, I'd look for an older Tektronix CRT
scope.? I still use a 30yo 4 channel 300Mhz scope that drifts less than .01%
every time I get it re-calibrated.? You can pick one up used for $300.? You
should be able to get it calibrated for about $100 and for a home gamer be
good for 5 years.

If you want something newer and more compact, do the research and there are
some older Rigol scopes that can be hacked to permanently upgrade their
function specs.? Rigol was making full featured scopes and using the same
hardware but sold as lesser machines that were software crippled.?? Someone
figured out the hack to permanently make them the best model.? I had one for
a couple of years but sold it and don't remember the particulars.
Automotive:

If you are looking for something geared toward automotive use (drop
resistant, grease/oil resistant) and even battery powered, Hantek makes some
good little hand held models.? But I find their screens hard to read with
old eyes.
MicSig makes a good ruggedized tablet style O-scope for automotive use that
has lots of probe choices to make automotive use very simple.?? If you get a
touch screen type scope, just be sure to get a good screen protector that
you can wipe clean from your greasy fingerprints.? 

Autel makes a hot little 4 channel scope for the automotive world too.? But,
it works with their Maxsys (sp?) scanner head.?? So you are looking at a
bigger investment than the self contained MicSig.
Sadly, all this stuff (other than Tektronix) is made in China

As far as speed, anything 100Mhz should be fine for any car work.
Rick
PS: I'm a Fluke fan, through and through.? I must have 15 different Fluke
multi-meters, clamp meters, network scanner/injectors... probably $25K
worth.? Love them, lived by them. ? I've never been impressed by their
"automotive" meters or their scopes. ? Just not in their wheelhouse.? The
only person I know who still owns a Fluke 88 runs Cosworth... and I've fixed
his, twice now.? 99% of the time, he's like me...? grab the old Fluke 77.?
It's a warhorse!?? What does he think of the Fluke 88?? he loaned it to
Keegan for a few months....? might as well been a sewing machine.

    On Sunday, June 6, 2021, 9:32:29 PM PDT, Peter Rychel
<dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:  
 
  
I?ve always wanted to get an oscilloscope as I feel it can be a handy tool
in diagnosing engine running problems, especially with newer fuel injected
cars, as the various sensors and controls aren?t simply on or off switches
but pulse at very high rates.

 ?
 
Obviously the more channels the unit has, the better (although cost goes up
considerably with each channel added). My question is, what minimum
frequency should the unit be capable of measuring in order to evaluate say,
a fuel injector or ignition coil circuit at near max RPM? 10,000Hz?
100,000Hz?

 ?
 
Thanks,

 ?
 
Peter

 ?
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 ?
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To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
https://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/ramosel%40pacbell.net

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