Re: Too good to be true?
From: Rick Moseley (ramoselpacbell.net)
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 14:55:59 -0700 (PDT)
I rest my case...
He once sent me a 3 page email about how he came to own that car.


On Friday, September 24, 2021, 02:45:44 PM PDT, Douglas Anderson <dnt [at] dock.net> wrote:


Shucks Rick

Anything I learned I can blame Ferrari Willie –

 

Afterall it was he who introduced me to my alter ego: Lamont Cranston.

 

How did that happen?

 

Picture this – Thurs or Fri CanAm practice mid-sixties – Riverside International Raceway – Paddock.  Willie spies a space right on the fence pointing into the hot pits and pulls in.  “Hey – that spot is taken” says a pretty girl voice.  Willie replies – “By whom?  Lamont Cranston?”.  And it was there that I picked up who good ol’ Lamont was . . . . The Shadow. 

 

Willie, in his ever friendly way, was able to keep the spot and then got us invited to eat fried chicken and drink beer with the group. 

 

I tell you – Willie missed his calling – what with so many openings for good people at the U.N. . . . . he woulda had it all smoothed over in no time.

 

Whatta guy.

 

Ach, that Willie – owner of an honest to goodness Euro 208 (as in two-oh-eight) GT4, normally aspirated.

Cheers

Doug

 

From: Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net>
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 11:34 AM
To: Douglas Anderson <dnt [at] dock.net>
Cc: 'The FerrariList' <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Too good to be true?

 

Doug,

You always set the story mark high and have way better stories.

I read every porsche and can-am posts multiple times.

 

On Friday, September 24, 2021, 10:44:36 AM PDT, Douglas Anderson <dnt [at] dock.net> wrote:

 

 

You guys write interesting posts

Doug

 

From: Ferrari <ferrari-bounces+dnt=dock.net [at] ferrarilist.com> On Behalf Of Rick Moseley
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2021 7:01 AM
To: DOUG <dnt [at] dock.net>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Too good to be true?

 

Lash,

No, the 74 on cars were equally junk.  Without the Ford money, they cut even more corners... except on looks.

Don't get me wrong, I like Panteras and they are a timeless design

I still regret selling the one I spent years refining.

Even the euro cars were shitboxes (to use cLyDe's vernacular)

The components were all undersized.

The ZF transmission is out of a German Grader (not kidding)

The bodies were made out of recycled clothes hangers (may be kidding there, can't think of where else you get such crappy steel).

 

Probably 22 years ago I was finishing up the digital rewire of Lou Schwartz's 39 Ford.  All the metal work had been done by Henry with Bitchin' Products body panels.  I had to drill the firewall for the bulkhead connector to run the LS engine bay harness.

With a brand new bi-metal hole saw I started drilling and drilling and oiling and pushing, no LEANING on the drill and it took me 5 minutes to get through the firewall.   It's why I finally bought a mag-drill.

 

Right after that a group of us started to work on a long needed mod to the Panteras to get rid of the huge bundled cable for the rear of the car electrics that ran through the engine bay.  Four of us were collaborating on how to move/reroute that bundle.  We all hit the same snag.  When you got to the back of the car there was no entry point into the channel where the taillights resided.  I decided to use my car as the guinea pig. I pulled the taillights out. I pulled the right rear wheel and pulled the cable bundle out, back to the B pillar.  The back of the taillight cavity loomed deep in the back of the wheel well.  I used a big foam block I had as a back stop to lean against the upright/brake assembly, carefully aligned the hole saw on the pilot hole I drilled and prepared to drill the hole... remembering all the time the struggle to get through the firewall in Lou's car. 

 

The hole saw popped through the Pantera taillight bucket in about 2 seconds and I was pushing hard enough I almost blew a hole through the back of the car when the bit lurched forward (rearward) after penetrating.   The sheet metal put up almost the same resistance as you'd get pushing a spoon through soggy cardboard.  It's no wonder the cars sag if you leave them on jackstands too long.   Gary Hall knew, that's why he built all the stiffening mods and weld-in Y plates for the Panteras.  I'm convinced it is why there is a 2000 rpm resonance drone you can't sound condition out of the car.

 

But we had a route to move that big ugly cable out of the engine bay.  People have been doing it since.

 

On Friday, September 24, 2021, 01:31:47 AM PDT, Lashdeep Singh via Ferrari <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> wrote:

 

 

Ford tried and accomplished lots of cost cutting on the Pantera to market it to a price point in North America.

 

Inferior brake parts, inferior tires, raised ride height, etc.

 

Luckily, factory delivered cars to the rest of the world (and made after 1974) were full spec and absolutely superb.

 

 

On Sep 24, 2021, at 03:05, Hans E. Hansen <FList [at] hanshansen.org> wrote:



Had a long lunch with Tom Tjaarda some 15 years ago. He related that his original drawings for the Pantera had a chin spoiler. Somewhere along the way to production it got removed. He said he drove an early production car at (high) speed, it had bad lift, and contacted them "put the spoiler back on!"

 

Hans. 

 

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 5:56 PM Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:

A really nice Pantera just went up for sale on BAT.

 

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 8:23 PM Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:

No, Mikey is a real person.  Mike Drew  aka "Sparky"

One of my dearest and longest term friends.

Current Air Force Reserve C-5 Pilot

Sometimes American Airlines Pilot (when he absolutely has to work)

He really prefers to be "gainfully unemployed".

Probably the worlds biggest resource on all things Pantera.

He has probably been involved in the sale of more Panteras than Lincoln/Mercury, and has never taken a dime.

He probably has more seat time in (other people's) sports cars than anyone on the planet.

I don't think he's ever met Steve Jenkins

 

Jenkins?  You still here?

 

 

On Thursday, September 23, 2021, 05:07:51 PM PDT, Matt Boyd <ferrari308driver [at] gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

Is Mikey the new Ricky?

 

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 6:53 PM Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:

You know Mikey... 

It'd probably mean I get to fix it, he'd get to drive it!

 

Rick

 

On Thursday, September 23, 2021, 02:39:35 PM PDT, Lashdeep Singh <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

 

 

Give MD the rear 1/2 and you take the front!

 

On Sep 23, 2021, at 19:11, Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:



Nah, I'd probably have to cut Mikey in for a share....

 

On Thursday, September 23, 2021, 10:00:35 AM PDT, Lashdeep Singh <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

 

 

Rick, we can share the 456!

 

Clyde, are you accepting me into your clueless about *current* car values club?

 

How exciting!

 

Can we coordinate complaint posts about recent auction results?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Sep 23, 2021, at 15:23, Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:



I know, it was really directed at Peter but wanted to get my color order in without stepping on Lash's toes.

 

 

On Thursday, September 23, 2021, 07:13:32 AM PDT, Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

You’re wasting your time with Lash

He has no concept on vehicle value whatsoever 

 

 

 

 

     RF4-4EVR

 

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

 

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

 

Clyde Romero    

 

 

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On Sep 23, 2021, at 10:01 AM, Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:



So basically, you'd like a 550 at 456 prices.

Me too, sign me up.

Contrary to Mr. B...   make mine black.

 

 

On Thursday, September 23, 2021, 04:05:18 AM PDT, Lashdeep Singh via Ferrari <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> wrote:

 

 

Agree on your specs…lots of style, noise and hustle for the $$$.

 

Find me a Nero/Bordeaux example please…

 

On Sep 23, 2021, at 07:55, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:



For what it’s worth, I love the 456 and would consider one, but here’s what I’d want:

 

-Imported or import myself a Euro model from 1994.

-Six speed manual.

 

Why?

 

The 1994 Euro models didn’t come with airbags. After nearly 30 years, I wouldn’t trust the bag fabric or explosives in an accident. Seatbelts have worked for the last 60+ years and even with aging, it’s simple and not that costly to replace. Oh, and the air bag ECUs easily fry if you jump-start a dead 456/550. Those ECUs are NLA. You can’t sell a car with an airbag fault/error code (unless you want to accept that liability in case the next owner has an accident). Besides, I hate the look of the fat steering wheels of the airbag cars. The Euros used slender three-spoke designs.

 

The automatic transmissions in these 456s were bespoke items using parts that are now NLA (see the theme?). The same reason why I wouldn’t touch a single-clutch F1 system from a modern, 2000s-era Ferrari. Not that a manual clutch job would be easy to do on a 456, but at least it’s still do-able and the parts are available.

 

Other, unavoidable weak points on the car are the power windows and the rear shock absorbers. The factory fixes never fix the problems and they continue to break. Mike Sheehan sold one several years ago and when I read the service report, the rear shocks were changed on that particular example every year...

 

Peter

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

 

From: Anthony Bauco
Sent: September 22, 2021 10:33 AM
To: PeterGT4
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Too good to be true?

 

Yes, it is all about you.

 

1. The 456 was released in 1992, not 1989, and only shared its stroke with the 348.  It is as similar to the 550 as it is the 348.  And the 575 is based on the same Dino platform.  Technology advances.  That is why it is $40k and not $140k.

2. A lack of records doesn't make a car a "parts car".  That is just a ridiculous statement.

3. As stated earlier, insurance will pay for replacement body panels.

4. If you hate automatics, fine, not for you but that isn't relevant.  Auto or not, this seems like a great deal.  And, like any slush box, they are reliable if properly maintained.  Given its pedigree, parts are readily available and cheap.  And, yes Clyde, slush box refers to a hydro-auto and not a manual.

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 12:09 PM Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Erik

No one believes me anymore!

Clyde Romero

 

If you have no enemies

You have no character ! 

 

Scars are tattoos with better stories!

When you're out of F-4's you're out of fighters!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Sep 22, 2021, at 11:55 AM, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:



Buy the hood, get the rest of the car for $15k....

 

 

Go price a Mercedes V12 of the same era, there is a reason that these are all ten cents on the original dollar cars.  

 

Enthusiasts/masochists, toMAto, tomato...

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:45 AM Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Like I said

This is a moving parts car for the 456 crowd

Some 456 owners need to get together and by it for parts

Clyde Romero

 

If you have no enemies

You have no character ! 

 

Scars are tattoos with better stories!

When you're out of F-4's you're out of fighters!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Sep 22, 2021, at 11:00 AM, Matt Boyd <ferrari308driver [at] gmail.com> wrote:



That's almost tempting at that price point. Besides the fact that it's automatic, besides the fact that it isn't pristine, besides the one stupid issue they have that I know about with windows, what are the downsides/risks? First thing is "some recent service," what does that mean? In other words, when was the last "major service" and when is it due next? What is the extent of a normal "major service" on a 456, and can an owner do it? I haven't done it in a while but I can do a major service (cam belts, tensioners, valve adjust, etc) on my 308 in a weekend, but my impression is that the newer and more complex the car is the less owner-serviceable it is, and I assume that's the case here.

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:37 AM Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:

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