Re: Too good to be true?
From: Douglas Anderson (dntdock.net)
Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 22:47:26 -0700 (PDT)

Erik – if you look closely enough you’ll notice that everything is really the same except for the differences.

(ahem)

Doug

 

From: Ferrari <ferrari-bounces+dnt=dock.net [at] ferrarilist.com> On Behalf Of Erik Nielsen
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2021 1:22 PM
To: DOUG <dnt [at] dock.net>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Too good to be true?

 

Cars with older ECUs can be easily upgraded with aftermarket ECUs if the maps are known.

 

Now that is funny...

 

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 3:06 PM Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:

That's not a bad philosophy but not 100% foolproof.  Every car has issues.  It is part of the deal as technology advances.  Now, windows should be a given so that is a bad miss.  But we saw the nightmare of the first electronically controlled FI engines and electronically controlled ATs.  Same with electronic climate control.  Then we got air bags, ABS, active suspensions, cam variators, direct injection and on and on.  Each time, there were lots of issues.  Some car companies did better than others.  Toyota did the electronically controlled AT well but Honda and others were miserable.  Toyota did not fare well initially with direct injection.  The newer the car, the more complex it is and the more difficult it is to sort out.  Cars with older ECUs can be easily upgraded with aftermarket ECUs if the maps are known.  Electronics is typically the Achilles heel of gear heads.  

 

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:59 AM BRITT ROTHMAN via Ferrari <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> wrote:

It’s interesting because I think they are beautiful cars but the window issue is such a big issue I assume most people do not understand what it is or if they did they wouldn’t touch one of these cars fir any price. I was at our annual FOC U.K. event in 2010 where there was a lineup of 456s and 9 of the 10 cars had the issue. There was a gap at the rear of the door windows, the vertical part) that you could slide your fingers through. Zero sealing, loads of wind noise but more importantly the car wasn’t water tight at all. The “ fix” ( at the time using redesigned Ferrari supplied parts) lasted for 1 year and then it broke again. God knows what you do now when they are 25 years old. I have the pictures, it was nuts. 

 

The best older Ferrari to buy ( in my opinion) is the second generation of the car where they have a shot at fixing issues (328/575/512tr/412 ect) but then what do I know, I’m getting older and more resistant then ever to unfixable bad designs….

 

Britt in Stockholm 

Sent from my iPhone



On 23 Sep 2021, at 08:55, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:



For what it’s worth, I love the 456 and would consider one, but here’s what I’d want:

 

-Imported or import myself a Euro model from 1994.

-Six speed manual.

 

Why?

 

The 1994 Euro models didn’t come with airbags. After nearly 30 years, I wouldn’t trust the bag fabric or explosives in an accident. Seatbelts have worked for the last 60+ years and even with aging, it’s simple and not that costly to replace. Oh, and the air bag ECUs easily fry if you jump-start a dead 456/550. Those ECUs are NLA. You can’t sell a car with an airbag fault/error code (unless you want to accept that liability in case the next owner has an accident). Besides, I hate the look of the fat steering wheels of the airbag cars. The Euros used slender three-spoke designs.

 

The automatic transmissions in these 456s were bespoke items using parts that are now NLA (see the theme?). The same reason why I wouldn’t touch a single-clutch F1 system from a modern, 2000s-era Ferrari. Not that a manual clutch job would be easy to do on a 456, but at least it’s still do-able and the parts are available.

 

Other, unavoidable weak points on the car are the power windows and the rear shock absorbers. The factory fixes never fix the problems and they continue to break. Mike Sheehan sold one several years ago and when I read the service report, the rear shocks were changed on that particular example every year...

 

Peter

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

 

From: Anthony Bauco
Sent: September 22, 2021 10:33 AM
To: PeterGT4
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Too good to be true?

 

Yes, it is all about you.

 

1. The 456 was released in 1992, not 1989, and only shared its stroke with the 348.  It is as similar to the 550 as it is the 348.  And the 575 is based on the same Dino platform.  Technology advances.  That is why it is $40k and not $140k.

2. A lack of records doesn't make a car a "parts car".  That is just a ridiculous statement.

3. As stated earlier, insurance will pay for replacement body panels.

4. If you hate automatics, fine, not for you but that isn't relevant.  Auto or not, this seems like a great deal.  And, like any slush box, they are reliable if properly maintained.  Given its pedigree, parts are readily available and cheap.  And, yes Clyde, slush box refers to a hydro-auto and not a manual.

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 12:09 PM Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Erik

No one believes me anymore!

Clyde Romero

 

If you have no enemies

You have no character ! 

 

Scars are tattoos with better stories!

When you're out of F-4's you're out of fighters!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Sep 22, 2021, at 11:55 AM, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:



Buy the hood, get the rest of the car for $15k....

 

 

Go price a Mercedes V12 of the same era, there is a reason that these are all ten cents on the original dollar cars.  

 

Enthusiasts/masochists, toMAto, tomato...

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:45 AM Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Like I said

This is a moving parts car for the 456 crowd

Some 456 owners need to get together and by it for parts

Clyde Romero

 

If you have no enemies

You have no character ! 

 

Scars are tattoos with better stories!

When you're out of F-4's you're out of fighters!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Sep 22, 2021, at 11:00 AM, Matt Boyd <ferrari308driver [at] gmail.com> wrote:



That's almost tempting at that price point. Besides the fact that it's automatic, besides the fact that it isn't pristine, besides the one stupid issue they have that I know about with windows, what are the downsides/risks? First thing is "some recent service," what does that mean? In other words, when was the last "major service" and when is it due next? What is the extent of a normal "major service" on a 456, and can an owner do it? I haven't done it in a while but I can do a major service (cam belts, tensioners, valve adjust, etc) on my 308 in a weekend, but my impression is that the newer and more complex the car is the less owner-serviceable it is, and I assume that's the case here.

 

On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 10:37 AM Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:

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