Ferrari Mailing List: OT! Give it up, Brian

[Dennis Liu (BigHeadDennis]

Ah, so Brian has finally joined the rest of us in discovering the power of
the search engine (esp as it serves as a massive waster of time).

First, as SteveJ has advised you to do on more than one occasion, Brian, the
first rule of finding yourself in a hole is to STOP DIGGING.

Might I suggest that you go back to figuring out how to make money from soda
machines?  Because the difference between a grant and a loan seems to escape
you.  :-)

If the government gives you money and you get to keep it, that's a
grant/payment/capital contribution, whatever you want to call it.

If the government gives you money and you have to pay it back, with
interest, that's a LOAN.

Todd is 100% right - the USPS does not receive payments from FedGovCo (and
hasn't since 1977).

But the USPS *has* BORROWED money from the treasury.

Why?  Because, like any business, it needs capital from time to time that
can't be covered by free cashflow.  And since the USPS is barred from
tapping the public capital markets (e.g., selling stock or bonds), it can
ONLY borrow money from . . . The treasury.  And it pays INTEREST on those
loans, just like you and me pay interest on our mortgages or Ferrari loans
or whatever.

Yeah, 9/11 and the subsequent anthrax attacks had a huge negative impact on
the USPS cashflow, so it needed to borrow money.  As you discovered via
search engines and pasted below in your post.

* * * But either you did not do ENOUGH research, or you intentionally
OMITTED, selectively, what happened between 2002 and today.  Guess what?
Not only did the USPS STOP borrowing money, but it also PAID OFF ALL of its
government debt by 2005.  So either you didn't discover it in your in depth
review of the facts, OR you conveniently omitted the 2005 information
because it completely undercuts your point.

So Todd is correct, and you remain wrong yet again ("Plus, they as a
business receive money from the Government to operate").  Wait, you want to
dig your heels in and STILL argue that the USPS, because it borrow money
from the treasury, is a taxpayer-subsidized entity?

By that theory, then many of the airlines flying today are ALSO in the same
boat.  They borrowed money from the treasury under a special program after
9/11 (and actually, the last of the debt has been retired or is about to be
retired, and the treasury actually made about $300mm on the whole shebang,
IIRC).  What about Chrysler?  It borrowed money - and repaid it all.  And
what about the tens of thousands of businesses that obtain loans from the
FedGovCo, through the SBA and dozens of other programs?

Yeesh, Brian.  Can't you just accept that your point was wrong?  That the
USPS isn't funded by the FedGovGo, unlike, say, Amtrak?

Hey, Google can just provide us with information.  It doesn't provide us
with the education to understand it...  :-)  :-)

Vty,

--Dennis


-----Original Message-----
From: Brian E. Buxton [mailto:BrianBuxton [at] BuxtonMotorsports.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 12:57 AM
To: Dennis Liu
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: [Ferrari] It's bad enough being REFERRED TO as ignorant ... but
it's worse being a blowhard

Todd,
Thanks for the info. Am curious who loans them the money on the loans they
have. Wasn't the most recent postage increase because the USPS was not going
to meet their requirements for loan payments? They lose about
$1 BILLION dollars a year.

Also, not so sure you are correct in your a statements. Appropriations from
Congress are tax dollars, correct? Taken from the GAO United States General
Accounting Office Report to Congressional Requesters, February 2002

"Appropriations: In the fall of 2001, USPS asked Congress to appropriate
about $5 billion to cover costs related to the terrorist and anthrax-related
incidents as well as their expected negative effect on revenues. USPS
subsequently asked for $1.3 billion to cover expenditures related to these
incidents through June 2002. To date, Congress has appropriated $675 million
to cover these costs. 10 This is the first appropriation since fiscal year
1982 for purposes other than revenue forgone on free and reduced rate mail.
11 In addition, USPS asked for nearly $1 billion in its fiscal year 2003
appropriation request, representing the total amount of revenue forgone for
free and reduced rate mail between 1991 and 1998, for which USPS had not yet
received appropriations. This request would be in lieu of the current
payment schedule established by a 1993 law for $29 million annually "

AND

"USPS continues to depend on borrowing and has not indicated how it plans to
reduce its debt. USPS has not generated sufficient cash flow from operations
to cover capital outlays in 11 of the last 15 fiscal years. USPS's
outstanding debt balance has grown steadily since fiscal year 1997, nearly
doubling from $5.9 billion to $11.3 billion at the end of fiscal year 2001
(see fig. 5). This trend of increasing debt levels essentially shifts the
burden of reducing the debt from current to future ratepayers and creates
pressure for USPS to raise postal rates in the future. Although this debt is
not guaranteed by the government, 15 if future ratepayers are unable to
reduce this debt, Congress could determine that the government should step
in to pay some or all of these obligations. Simply borrowing to keep USPS
operating is not acceptable as a long-term option and is contrary to USPS's
mandate to be self-supporting. "


Brian



Todd Walke wrote:

>Brian wrote:
>
> >Plus, they as a business receive
> >money from the Government to operate AND they make money from postage 
> >sales, etc.
>
>         Umm, actually they don't receive any tax dollars for 
>operations.  The Postal Reorganization Act in 1971 made the Post Office 
>an independent entity of the executive branch of the United States 
>government and began the process of eliminating direct subsidies.
>         From page 30 of the 2005 Annual Report
>(http://www.usps.com/history/anrpt05/):
>
>"As an independent establishment of the executive branch of the United 
>States government, we receive no tax dollars for our operations. We are 
>self supporting, and have not received a public service appropriation 
>since 1982. The last time we received any substantial contribution of 
>capital from the U.S. government was in calendar years 1976 and 1977, 
>when we received two $500 million payments which we were required to 
>use to repay operating debt. We fund our operations chiefly from cash 
>generated from operating revenue."
>
>
>Todd
>Seattle,WA
>'86 GTI, Red of course. (exciting racey car)  263,000 miles
>'87 Golf, Polar Silver. (boring work car)     590,000 miles <- Yeah, baby!
>http://www.pureluckdesign.com <-Ferrari & VW stuff
>
>
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>

--
Brian E. Buxton

President, Buxton Motorsports, Inc .
www.BuxtonMotorsports.com
(812) 476-2281 x 209
Member ThaList.com

Managing Partner, Private Label Livery Services www.PrivateLabelLimo.com 

President, Brian Buxton Enterprises, Inc.
Nationwide Enclosed Auto Transportation
www.BuxtonMotorsports.com/storage-transportation.php 

Founder & Past President
SO. IN Region PCA
www.pca.org/soi

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