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Re: Spark plug reading?
From: Doug and Terri Anderson (dntdock.net)
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2007 05:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
For a supermarket camera - not bad, not bad. OK, hoping that the white insulator is actually a light tan - your ok. As I said before - a bad sign is no insulator, or, on the cooler side of life - one that looks like it came from a 2 cycle lawn mower. heh heh
DOUG

----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Pless" <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au>
To: "DOUG" <dnt [at] dock.net>
Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Spark plug reading?


Ok so NOW you can see it's a supermarket camera!

I was happy to see the carbon deposits breaking off.

I did it after a commute. No idling at the end cruised to a stop from
2500rpm then killed engine.

I pulled out 1 and 4. 4 was a little darker. Any thoughts?

http://www.fcavic.com.au/308/index.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Pless [mailto:ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2007 10:55 AM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Spark plug reading?

Thanks for all this info, guys.

Larry, the electronic ignition has no moving parts. It's why I got rid of
the original twin distributor system. Apart from 1-2 degree variation from
cylinder to cylinder, I could have up to 8 deg difference from bank to bank
depending on rpm and whether it was ramping up or down! Either way, pretty
crappy.

So I changed it to a single distributor, programmable pointsless ign as
shown here

http://www.pless.com.au/cars/gt4/rebuild/images/BILD0018.JPG



-----Original Message-----
From: LarryT [mailto:l02turner [at] comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2007 10:48 AM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Spark plug reading?

Hi Peter,
Sorry if this has been covered - haven't read all the posts (sorry) - has
your distributor curve profile been checked?  Weights stick, springs lose
tension and gradually the distributor stops performing as it should.

If you have reason to suspect the jet inventory may be off a bit I can check
my reference material and see what was originally spec'd for your 308GT4 -
if you'll provide the year altho the year may not matter -.

You comment about checking the exhaust gas to see how close the tuning is
can really pinpoint the changes needed, if any.

Also, I have several tuning procedures (for 911s but all Webers are very
similar - especially the DCOEs and IDAs)  - they can be found at
http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
I also have some formulas for calculating the main jets and main venturi
sizes.

Take care --

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis
and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE
POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Pless" <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au>
To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Spark plug reading?


130 mains (125s drilled out) and I THINK 220 AC but I'll have to
double check that.

When I pull the plug out later, I'll confirm the type as well.

It's all interesting stuff.

One of my mechanics has a mobile gas analyzer. I guess that would make
things much easier.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Handa [mailto:dave [at] davehanda.com]
Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2007 9:31 AM
To: 'Peter Pless'
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: RE: [Ferrari] Spark plug reading?

What are your main and AC jets?  What plug are you using and what heat
range?



-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Pless [mailto:ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au]
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:02 PM
To: dave [at] davehanda.com
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Spark plug reading?

Gee...look at all the information I didn't give.

Ok..so it's originally a twin distributor car but now has 10:1
compression, euro GTB cams, no smog equipment and programmable
pointless electronic ignition (BSM)<---which is excellent btw,
starting at 12 deg btdc at idle and max total advance of 34 deg btdc

I only pulled the one plug from the one bank.

I will give it another go under different conditions. BUT....i'll do
it after cruising, not going flat out at this stage. I'm interested in
getting low throttle/low engine speed stuff right too. I'm running 55
idle jets.

Hopefully, I can do that later today.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Polzer [mailto:jason [at] internethosting.com]
Sent: Thursday, 16 August 2007 3:20 AM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Spark plug reading?


  I agree no idle before reading plugs.  I remember in 1/4 mile racing
  cutting my engine at the same time as lifting my foot while crossing
  the finish line.  And then trying to make the turn around quickly and
  safely enough to coast back to the pits and pull a few plugs.
  Jason
  Rick Lindsay wrote:

Hey Peter,
  Everyone and his brother will have opinions on this issue but I'll
add mine.

  First of all, a plug-cut should only be done (read:
only be interpreted) from plugs that have not been subjected to recent
idle.
That is, the technique
says: Go for a spirited drive and at the last second of that drive,
cut the engine WITHOUT allowing it to idle - not even rolling into the
garage.
The
carbon build-up comes from idleing and that can preclude an honest
read of the plug.  This site has a good write-up on the idea:

[1]http://www.centuryperformance.com/spark.asp

  Don't forget to go to page 2 where there are more pictures.

  Your picture shows an insulator that is about the right color,
perhaps a little too cool (read: it isn't staying hot enough to burn off
deposits). 
The ground electrode color isn't too bad either.  Still, I would
expect the whole thing to be a dusty tan color if everything was
balanced properly.
The black carbon around the base of the plug is not too much of an
issue with me.  It says that you may be running a little rich.  Still,
a little rich 11:1 to 12:1 is a more powerful charge mixture than the
perfect
14.7:1
ratio.  We must also remember that a leaner mixture burns hotter.
Conversly, rich mixtures burn cooler.
Therefore, air-fuel ratio or 'mixture' must be matched to the plug
heat range.
  Then there's compression ratio.  That too changes burn rates.
Higher pressure charge is harder to ignite therefore, a stronger
ignition is required.
Ferrari ignitions are arc welders so if you're running a stock
ignition, you're probebly strong enough (assuming it is in good health).

  Quick question: Do all of the plugs look similar or is one bank
different; or one plug different?

  Okay, that's just some stuff to ponder.  From this and someone
else's post with the 'right' answer, you'll get the engine dialed in.

regards,

rick
'79 308GTB
--- Peter Pless [2]<ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au> wrote:



Does anyone know what this means?

[3]http://www.pless.com.au/308plug.jpg

It's from my newly rebuilt 308GT4 engine. 10:1 compression running on
unleaded fuel.

Programmable ignition gives it lots of advance.

When the plug was pulled, I'd come back from quite a long drive, but
the last bit of it consisted of traffic and plenty  of idle speed stuff.

What's with the carbon on it already? Engine's only done 600
miles....and I've been nursing it.

TIA

Peter




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References

  1. http://www.centuryperformance.com/spark.asp
  2. mailto:ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au
  3. http://www.pless.com.au/308plug.jpg
  4.
http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/rolindsay%40yahoo.com
  5. http://www.BidNip.com/
  6. http://www.F1Headlines.com/
  7.

http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/jason%40internethosting 
.com
  8. http://www.BidNip.com/
  9. http://www.F1Headlines.com/
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