Re: OFF TOPIC !!! - RE: Official Rifle Cartridge oftheFerrari List
From: red5hilser (red5hilseraol.com)
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 09:08:05 -0800 (PST)
Hey Scottie: A Yugo at full speed? How 'scary' can 40mph be?

Bubba

-----Original Message-----
From: Ferrarisimo [at] Comcast.net 
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] OFF TOPIC !!! - RE: Official Rifle Cartridge 
oftheFerrari List


This thread is taking scarier turns than a Yugo at full speed around Leguna 
Seca.?
?
Scottie?
?
On Dec 7, 2007, at 11:22 AM, red5hilser [at] aol.com wrote:?
?
> Hey cLyDe: Thanks for the good wishes. Although we've only met once, > at 
> that Lister party at the winery before the 2001 USGP, if we > happen to meet 
> again in the future, promise me that there will be no > more tongues this 
> time?when we shake hands and embrace, please. I > mean you're a really nice 
> guy, but ...?
>?
> Forza, yer puzzled pal, Ferrari Bubba?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: clyde romero <clyderomero [at] worldnet.att.net>?
> To: red5hilser [at] aol.com?
> Subject: RE: [Ferrari] OFF TOPIC !!! - RE: Official Rifle Cartridge > 
> oftheFerrari List?
>?
>?
>?
> You are a piece of work dude?
> Have a happy holiday season?
>?
>?
> Clyde?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: red5hilser [at] aol.com [mailto:red5hilser [at] aol.com]?
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 9:43 AM?
> To: clyde?
> Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com?
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] OFF TOPIC !!! - RE: Official Rifle Cartridge?
> oftheFerrari List?
>?
> I bought my MP-40 as a parts gun at a gunshow in L.A. back in the > early?
> 1980's. Complete, still packed in cosmoline, except the reciever was > cut in?
> half for $400. They had a case of them. I found a class 2 > manufacturer in?
> Phoenix (I was living in Tucson at the time) and he made me a > duplicate,?
> working reciever for another $400. I went down to the local Tucson > PD and?
> was fingerprinted, photographed, and had a background check (another > $40),?
> sent that, plus?my paperwork in to the BATF ($200) and recieved my > transfer?
> documents about 3 months later. Showed the papers to the dealer, > picked up?
> MY weapon and went through 300 9mm rounds before I got back home. I > don't?
> know if the laws have changed, but it was easy back then. How sweet > it is!?
>?
> Yer pal, Ferrari Bubba?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Dave Handa dave [at] davehanda.com?
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] OFF TOPIC !!! - RE: Official Rifle Cartridge?
> oftheFerrari List?
>?
>?
>?
> Lewis Machine and Tool makes and sells them to attach to your > AR-15! About?
> $1700 and fully transferable if allowed in your state (most states > it is?
> okay)?
>?
> http://www.lewismachine.net/store.php?cid=10&session=6a3acac3a1a40de4bb696ef?
> 7f7ec6d80?
>?
> It is an NFA title 2 weapon. So lot's of paperwork and time to get?
> processed, but it can be done. A buddy of mine got one.?
>?
> Dave?
>?
>?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Martin Stark [mailto:MStark [at] Copper.net]?
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2007 7:33 PM?
> To: dave [at] davehanda.com?
> Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com?
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] OFF TOPIC !!! - RE: Official Rifle Cartridge?
> oftheFerrari List?
>?
> A little difficult to conceal though.?
>?
> clyde romero wrote:?
>?
>> I carry an M203 my self it leaves nothing to the imagination !?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>> Clyde?
>>?
>> Mobile 678 641 9932?
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>> -----Original Message-----?
>> From: red5hilser [at] aol.com [mailto:red5hilser [at] aol.com]?
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 2:16 PM?
>> To: clyde?
>> Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com?
>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] OFF TOPIC !!! - RE: Official Rifle Cartridge?
>> oftheFerrari List?
>>?
>> OK, call me a sentimental old fool, but I've always carried my >> trusty old?
>> WW2 'Political Leader' Walther PPK with the brown National Emblem >> 
>> composite?
>> plastic grips in .32 cal. In the 40 odd years that I've had it, >> I've only?
>> had to draw it once?(Thank God!) back in the late 1970's. No shots >> fired,?
>> and that's the way I like it. But remember the old saying, "Better >> to be?
>> judged by 12 ...?than carried by 6."?
>>?
>> Yer pal, ferrari Bubba?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>> -----Original Message-----?
>> From: Martin Stark MStark [at] Copper.net?
>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] OFF TOPIC !!! - RE: Official Rifle Cartridge?
>> oftheFerrari List?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>> Okay, since this thread has morphed to carry guns. My two favs are:?
>> Keltec P11 - crappy plastic with a lousy trigger, but it's pocketable?
>> and it packs 11 rnds of 9mm.?
>> HK P7M8 - high quality tack driver that carries safely in condition >> one?
>> and goes from de-cocked to SA and back with a squeeze or release of >> its?
>> grip mounted cocking lever?
>>?
>> Dave Handa wrote:?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>> Quote "I still carry either my Detonics?
>>> 9mm or my SigSauer M239 in .40S&W on my person and having carried a?
> pistol,?
>>>?
>>> more specifically a variant of the Sig for about the last 10 years >>> 
>>> before?
>?
>>> retiring, and ever since that will be unlikely to change for >>> personal?
>>> preference?
>>> reasons. I am, experimenting with a Taurus "Judge" model revolver >>> with 
>>> a?
>>> cylinder that is chambered for both the .45 Colt and the .410 2.5in.?
>>>?
>>>?
>> shotgun?
>>?
>>?
>>> cartridges. This is my first Taurus firearm that I have ever owned >>> 
>>> given?
>>> their?
>>> reputation in the past of lesser quality firearms but my >>> examination of?
>>>?
>>>?
>> this?
>>?
>>?
>>> firearm (which is backed by a lifetime warranty) has caused me to >>> 
>>> conclude?
>>> that?
>>> it appears to be a fine quality firearm, every bit equal to >>> current S&W 
>>> or?
>>>?
>>>?
>>?
>>?
>>?
>>> Colt production. The idea of carrying a revolver (or placing it at >>> 
>>> one's?
>>> bedside) that chambers a #3 buckshot shotgun cartridge in >>> sequences 
>>> (the?
>>> ideal one?
>>> is still in the testing stage) with the .45 Long Colt makes it a >>> fine?
> short?
>>>?
>>> range, self-defense encounter profile firearm. I should also note >>> that 
>>> a?
>>> number of the "gurus" of the firearms magazine ilk concur with this?
>>> conclusion.?
>>>?
>>> Dr. Steve"?
>>>?
>>>?
>>> Keep carrying the Detonics or Sig. Doctor, I'm not sure how you are?
>>> prioritizing the attributes of your carry handgun, but consider >>> these:?
>>>?
>>> 1) weight the Judge is probably twice the weight of your current >>> carry?
>>> guns.?
>>>?
>>> 2) Size, ditto...probably twice as thick, which makes it more >>> difficult?
> to?
>>> conceal?
>>>?
>>> 3) Accuracy...every article I have seen has shown rather mediocre?
> accuracy?
>>> with the Judge, a problem since it must be able to chamber both 410?
> shotgun?
>>> shells and 45 lc requires a compromise in chamber dimensions. It >>> 
>>> probably?
>>> has plenty of practical accuracy out to 25 yards with 45LC. But >>> your?
>>> Detonics or Sig will shoot to 100 yards on man size targets no >>> problem.?
>>>?
>>> Also, what about this shotgun shell thing? What if you need to >>> shoot at?
>>> longer distances? The spread with buckshot will be terrible >>> beyond 15?
> feet?
>>> or so....what about bystanders? And how do you load it up? All >>> 
>>> buckshot,?
>>> or all 45? Or alternate? What if you need a long shot, but the >>> next?
> round?
>>> it buckshot??
>>>?
>>> You seem focused on a "short distance" fight, it would be great if >>> we?
> could?
>>> choose the fight we are going to be in, but I think one needs to >>> allow 
>>> for?
>>> more variables.?
>>>?
>>> 4) Reloading. Granted, fights are rarely won based on a fast >>> reload, 
>>> but?
> I?
>>> would prefer a semi-auto that can be quickly reloaded. I don't >>> believe?
>>>?
>>>?
>> that?
>>?
>>?
>>> there are speed loaders for the Judge, which would mean carrying >>> loose?
>>> rounds in your pocket, or using dump pouches. Loose rounds is >>> VERY slow?
>>>?
>>>?
>> way?
>>?
>>?
>>> to reload a revolver. Anyone can train up in short order to >>> perform a?
>>>?
>>>?
>> speed?
>>?
>>?
>>> load in 3 seconds pretty easily.?
>>>?
>>> 5) Capacity. Only 5 rounds with the Judge. What if you have >>> multiple?
>>> attackers? Fights are rarely one on one, as most attackers want the?
>>> superiority of force, so there will likely be more than one. Your?
> Detonics?
>>> and Sig have the advantage of greater capacity and faster reloading.?
>>>?
>>> 6) Caliber/Power. That can be debated forever. But hundreds of?
> thousands?
>>> of people have been shot and killed with 9mm fmj (ball) ammo, and >>> I 
>>> doubt?
>>> any of them complained. BTW, the quickest way to "make a bigger >>> hole" 
>>> in?
>>> your adversary, is to make another one. In other words, shoot >>> some 
>>> more.?
>>>?
>>> The bottom line on the Judge is it is the "wiz bang" new "gun of the?
>>> moment". It really does nothing new, and solves no real problem. >>> The?
>>> reason it is getting a lot of press from the "gun gurus" is gun >>> writers?
> are?
>>> underpaid and love the free trips to Brazil, free guns, free ammo >>> and?
> other?
>>> stuff provided by the manufacturer Taurus, for a favorable >>> article. How?
> do?
>>> I know this? Because I know a gun writer who wrote something less >>> than?
>>> stellar about a major handgun manufacturer, and they literally had >>> him?
>>> shutdown in the industry. No more loaners were sent out by them, or?
> others?
>>> as word got out. Free ammo dried up as well.?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
>>>?
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