Ferrari Mailing List: Re: And now it begins

(continued)

John wrote <<I fear that a far
left socialistic income redistributing >>

And, as we all know a program started by congress is NEVER allowed to die or 

even be reduced!  Remember a few years ago when there was a move to slow 

spending on Medicare?  The increase was to be 10% rather than 14% and guess 

what the media said "Repubicans want to kill senior citizens by allowing 

medicare to die from funding cuts!"

Same thing happened when there was an attemnpt to reduce some school 

funding.  It was never called a reduction in the increase only a cut in 

funding.

And on and on.

absolutely correct when it's said the republicans increased spending like a 

drunken sailor, but it's hard to stand up to that kind of journalism.

Even the most strident pennypincher would fail when asked why he wants to 

kill all the old people and kids.  Over and over - even if he provides an 

eloquent answer it's unlikely to get much publication -

Take Care,
Larry T
http://youroil.net
http://members.rennlist.org/oil/  - Oil Testing
http://members.rennlist.org/webercarbs/ - Carb & Jet Settings:

----- Original Message ----- 

From: <JAshburne [at] aol.com>

To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
Cc: <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] And now it begins

Unfortunately it seems that there will be no balance between the President

and Congress if Obama wins.  If anything, Dems in the Senate are hoping for 

a

filibuster proof 60+ number of seats.

It wasn't good when Bush and a republican controlled congress (2001-2006)
reigned as there was no control whatsoever in spending and I fear that a far
left socialistic income redistributing Democratic president who wants to

nationalize health care, start programs to pay for college and increase 

welfare

benefits among 800 billion of other "investments" (note that congress never
"spends" anything.  All of the dollars that they pay out are "investments")

combined with a devoted democratic super majority congress will be a 

disaster  for

the economy and your take home pay, whether you are an employee or an
employer.

Balance of power is good and I fear that there will be no one to balance an
Obama presidency.

John

PS my spell checker pinged on Obama and suggested these two alternatives
among the top 4 choices:  Bagman and Badman.  How prophetic!

In a message dated 10/5/2008 10:48:54 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rick.morris [at] brewhaus.com writes:

You are  correct, John.  I have lived in a socialist country, and there  are
only a couple of groups that it is actually good for:

Those who  are unable to otherwise be gainfully employed (physical or
mentally  handicapped)- which is really a very small group
Those who are lazy, and  find ways to live off of social programs- and
believe me, they  will!

I for one have no problems in helping that first group, and I do  not think

that you will find many people among those more fortunate to feel 

otherwise.

However, that second group is considerably larger than the  first, and will
slowly grow creating a need for more and more money going  into the social
programs (ie. increased taxes).  And, that second  group is the one that
everyone gets rather upset about helping.

I,  too, am very worried about the effects of voting in the socialist  party
(oops, strike that- I meant Democratic party).  This country has  become the

greatest in the world through its free market enterprise.   Is it just me, 

or

has the Democratic party been leaning further and further  left over the 

past

20 years?  They seem to have become more extreme  than in the past.  I guess
that we can just hope that if the  presidency flips to a Democrat, that
Congress flips the opposite  direction.

Rick

Brewhaus (America) Inc.
Hot Sauce  Depot
5901 Park Vista Circle, #105
Keller, TX  76248
817-750-2739
http://www.brewhaus.com/
http://www.hotsaucedepot.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: JAshburne [at] aol.com  [mailto:JAshburne [at] aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 9:03  AM
To: rick.morris [at] brewhaus.com
Cc:  ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] And now it  begins

Of all of the provisions of the bailout bill, the  most dangerous and
extremely troubling is the provision that a judge can  override and
effectively renegotiate a mortgage contract.  This  country's success has

been because of a number of free market capitalistic  reasons, but one of 

the

most under appreciated and valuable factors has  been the sanctity of
contract law.  It is right up there with private  property rights, which are
also being eroded by expanded eminent domain  applied to increase tax
revenues and restrictions about what can be done  with private property.
Without the assurance that contracts between two  parties are valid and
enforceable, there would have been nowhere near the  growth and prosperity
that we have enjoyed.

I have financed  companies and projects all over the world and the most
important question  about whether or not it is even possible to provide

financing is about the  political risk that contracts in that country will 

be

nullified by the  government.  Countries that have a record of doing that 

are

unlikely  to get any financing at all.  Witness Venezuela, Bolivia and
Ecuador  and their recent actions in tearing up private party contracts  and
appropriating natural resource company assets.  It will be years,  if not

decades, before these countries will be able to really attract 

international

capital and in the meantime, their economies will suffer and  they will
perpetuate their status as third world countries.

Socialism in this country will not appear overnight in one dramatic  bang,
it will creep in slowly in a series of seemingly innocuous actions  that are
'for the good of the people (e.g. mortgage holders)".  But  over time, these
little actions will add up and it will take over.  We  will look back 20
years from now and wonder how we fell down so far into  the socialistic
abyss.

I am really truly very, very  worried.

John

In a message dated 10/4/2008  10:40:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rick.morris [at] brewhaus.com  writes:
Well, I for one am not ready for a socialist  America.  Free health care?
It
astounds me just how  many people buy into that, and do not have the
sense to
realize that the government is not a business- it does not 'make'  money,
it
gets its money via taxes.  So, where do the  tens of billions of dollars
come
from to pay for such a  plan?  Any guesses?  I'll give you a hint- expect
a
drop in your take home pay.  The last thing that America needs  right now
is
to see the reduced spending resulting from  people taking home less.  And
if
you buy into the  'increase taxes only on the rich', then I have a
beautiful
bridge for you.  Virtually every politician promises this, but they  are
not
about to bite the hand that feeds them.   These are the very people that
donate the funds to run your  campaign- are you about to hit them with
big
tax  increases?  Sorry, it is the $50K to $250K income group that will  be
hit
again.  You want to make a change- abolish the  IRS and put in a national
sales tax.  There are no  loopholes, people pay tax based on income (the
more
you  make, the more you tend to spend), and you will also tax people who
currently are not taxed (drug dealers, prostitutes, etc.) as well  as
unclaimed income (most of the service industry) that  result in their
ability
to spend more.

And do we want to even guess the number of lawsuits (hey, count me  in)
that
will be launched when banks have to eat part of  the interest rate and
principle (esp that second part!) of  mortgages for those who
irresponsibly
over-bought, and now  cannot afford the payments?  Not only is this
socialist
bordering on communist, but it also penalizes everyone who  was
responsible
enough to purchase within their means by  forcing them to pay the full
shot
for their home, and not  have the bank pay part of it for you.  And the
Dem's
have the gall to say that this is not redistribution of wealth!?   What
is
wrong with proposing that the banks renegotiate  the term of the
mortgage?
Maintain an appropriate interest  rate, and extend the term to 40 or 45
years?  This  should sufficiently lower a payment to something that a
person
could afford, it would avoid any losses (the money is already lent,  so
the
principle is returned more slowly but that results  in increased profit
through a higher interest portion of a  payment), and would avoid
foreclosure.  Most people do  not hold their house for 30 years, anyway,
so
the loan  would likely be repaid in well under that time frame, and  the
bank
will have made more profit on  interest.

Well, there is my rant- sorry, I could not hold  it in any longer.  But
one
more point.  Leave  Iraq?  I am sorry, but a lot of people were in favor
of
going in, and once you do that you have to finish the job.  We may  not
like
it while we are there, but you have to finish  what you start.  If we
don't,
then we will be heading  back there within five years.

Okay, now I am  done.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: jimshadow [at] verizon.net  [mailto:jimshadow [at] verizon.net]
Sent: Saturday, October 04,  2008 7:22 AM
To: RAM
Cc: The  FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] And now it  begins

So ones ability to communicate holds weight  over real world experience?
What is it that Obama has done in  his Senatorial experience again aside
from
master use of  the 'Present' vote button.   Hardly impressive.
Oh  yeah, he was a lead lawyer in suing a big bad corporation
(Citibank)......that's good, right?   Nope.....that forced Citi to  make
loans available to people they never otherwise.   What's the harm in
that?
Well now he has the idea that Fed  bankruptcy judges should be able to
adjust
not only rates  BUT principal amounts as well???  COME ON!         But
Obama
claimed he did warn of the impending problems  with sub prime loans then
turns around and puts two of the  most corrupt CEO's on his Advisory
board...
I believe F.D.  Raines has made a buck or two off of sub prime
lending....now
WE have to bail it out?
Obama reeks and we will be in  a world of hurt if this clown gets
elected.......

Jim
Sent from my  BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed

-----Original  Message-----
From: "philville dejazzd.com"  <philville [at] dejazzd.com>

Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008  07:40:48
To: JIM<jimshadow [at] verizon.net>
Cc: The FerrariList<ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: [Ferrari] And now it begins

In ref. to "Secret Foreign Money"

This is  only my opinion. Nothing based on facts, if for no reason
other than facts seem to come and go as they  please.

As I said on Oct. 3rd at10:58 pm....  "SWIFT BOATS, because you know
they  are
coming soon!"........I do not know  what is true and what is not,
so
I will hve  to go with my gut

I believe that John McC is  a great man and gave a lot, but 2
things....
1) Having spent 6 to 7 years of his  life in a prison camp is not a
great reason to  have ones finger poised over the doomsday button.

2) He may be a great (and knowledgable) statesman but I do not  feel
that he is the apprpriate communicator to  get us back to being the
Unitd States of America  that has presided over world affairs in the
past.

Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: Rich  <Richf355 [at] comcast.net>
Date: Saturday,  October 4, 2008 12:05 am
Subject: Re: [Ferrari]  Latest Government Actions (NFC) OT
To: Phil  Tegtmeier <philville [at] dejazzd.com>
Cc: The  FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam" <flatcrank [at] gmail.com>
To: "Rich" <RichF355 [at] comcast.net>
Cc: "The FerrariList"  <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent:  Friday, October 03, 2008 8:39 PM
Subject:  Re: [Ferrari] Latest Government Actions (NFC) OT

 > This is depressing.
>
> I don't see any evidence of Obama raising half a  billion (from
whom?)> and why wouldn't  the McCain campaign be all over it?
 >
> Looking at the FEC site, it seems  like Obama has a total of
$400M  and
> with many donations above $2000,  there's no obvious "foreign" -
-
> what's the process for identifying the  sources?
>
>===================================

This story seems to answer the  questions you have.

Secret, Foreign Money Floods Into Obama Campaign
Monday, September 29, 2008 9:23 PM

By: Kenneth R.  Timmerman

More than half of the whopping $426.9  million Barack Obama has
raised  has
come from small donors whose names the  Obama campaign won't

disclose.

And questions have arisen about millions more in  foreign
donations the Obama
campaign has received that apparently have not been  vetted as
legitimate.

Obama has raised nearly  twice that of John McCain's campaign,
 according to
new campaign finance  report.

 But because of Obama's high expenses during the hotly contested
Democratic
primary  season and an early decision to forgo public campaign
money and the
spending  limits it imposes, all that cash has not translated
into a
financial  advantage - at least, not yet.

The Obama campaign  and the Democratic National Committee began
 September
with $95 million in cash,  according to reports filed with the
 Federal
Election Commission  (FEC).

The McCain camp and the Republican  National Committee had $94
 million,
because of an influx of $84  million in public money.

But Obama easily could  outpace McCain by $50 million to $100
 million or more
in new donations before  Election Day, thanks to a legion of
 small
contributors whose names and  addresses have been kept secret.

Unlike the McCain  campaign, which has made its complete donor
 database
available online, the Obama  campaign has not identified donors
for  nearly
half the amount he has raised,  according to the Center for
 Responsive
Politics (CRP).

Federal law does not require the campaigns to identify  donors
who give less
than $200 during the election cycle. However, it does  require
that campaigns
calculate running totals for each donor and report them  once
they go beyond
the $200 mark.

Surprisingly, the  great majority of Obama donors never break the
$200
threshold.

"Contributions that come under $200 aggregated per person  are
not listed,"
said Bob Biersack, a spokesman for the FEC. "They don't  appear
anywhere, so
there's no way of knowing who they are."

The FEC breakdown of the Obama campaign has identified  a
staggering $222.7
million as coming from contributions of $200 or less. Only  $39.6
million of
that amount comes from donors the Obama campaign has  identified.

It is the largest pool of unidentified  money that has ever
flooded into  the
U.S. election system, before or after  the McCain-Feingold
campaign  finance
reforms of 2002.

Biersack would not comment on whether the FEC was  investigating
the huge
amount of cash that has come into Obama's coffers with no  public
reporting.

But Massie Ritsch, a  spokesman for CRP, a campaign-finance
 watchdog group,
dismissed the scale of the  unreported money.

"We feel comfortable that  it isn't the $20 donations that are
 corrupting a
campaign," he told  Newsmax.

But those small donations have added  up to more than $200
million, all of  it
from unknown and unreported  donors.

Ritsch acknowledges that there is  skepticism about all the
unreported  money,
especially in the Obama campaign  coffers.

"We and seven other watchdog groups  asked both campaigns for
more
information on small donors," he said. "The Obama  campaign never
responded,"
whereas the McCain campaign "makes all its donor  information,
including the
small donors, available online."

The rise of the Internet as a campaign funding tool raises  new
questions
about the adequacy of FEC requirements on disclosure. In pre-
Internet
 fundraising, almost all political donations, even small ones,
were made by
bank check,  leaving a paper trail and limiting the amount of fraud.

But credit cards used to make donations on the Internet  have
allowed for far
more abuse.

"While FEC  practice is to do a post-election review of all
presidential
campaigns, given their  sluggish metabolism, results can take
three  or four
years," said Ken Boehm, the  chairman of the conservative
National Legal  and
Policy Center.

Already, the FEC has noted unusual patterns in Obama  campaign
donations
among donors who have been disclosed because they have  gone
beyond the $200
minimum.

FEC and Mr. Doodad  Pro

When FEC auditors have questions about  contributions, they send
letters  to
the campaign's finance committee  requesting additional
information, such  as
the complete address or employment  status of the donor.

Many of the FEC letters  that Newsmax reviewed instructed the
Obama  campaign
to "redesignate" contributions in  excess of the finance limits.

Under campaign  finance laws, an individual can donate $2,300 to
a candidate
for federal office in both  the primary and general election, for
a  total of
$4,600. If a donor has topped the  limit in the primary, the
campaign  can
"redesignate" the contribution to the  general election on its

books.

In a letter dated  June 25, 2008, the FEC asked the Obama
 campaign to verify
a series of $25  donations from a contributor identified as
 "Will, Good" from
Austin, Texas.

Mr. Good Will listed his employer as "Loving" and his  profession
as "You."

A Newsmax analysis of the 1.4 million individual  contributions
in the latest
master file for the Obama campaign discovered 1,000  separate
entries for Mr.
Good Will, most of them for $25.

In total, Mr. Good Will gave $17,375.

Following this and subsequent FEC requests, campaign  records
show that 330
contributions from Mr. Good Will were credited back to a  credit
card. But
the most recent report, filed on Sept. 20, showed a  net
cumulative balance
of $8,950 - still well over the $4,600 limit.

There can be no doubt that the Obama campaign noticed  these
contributions,
since Obama's Sept. 20 report specified that Good  Will's
cumulative
contributions since the beginning of the campaign were  $9,375.

In an e-mailed response to a query  from Newsmax, Obama campaign
 spokesman
Ben LaBolt pledged that the  campaign would return the donations.
But  given
the slowness with which the campaign  has responded to earlier
FEC  queries,
there's no guarantee that the  money will be returned before the
Nov.  4
election.

 Similarly, a donor identified as "Pro, Doodad," from "Nando,
NY," gave
$19,500 in 786  separate donations, most of them for $25. For
most of these
donations, Mr. Doodad  Pro listed his employer as "Loving" and
his  profession
as "You," just as Good Will had  done.

But in some of them, he didn't even go  this far, apparently
picking  letters
at random to fill in the blanks on  the credit card donation
form. In  these
cases, he said he was employed by  "VCX" and that his profession
was  "VCVC."

Following FEC requests, the Obama  campaign began refunding money
to  Doodad
Pro in February 2008. In all, about  $8,425 was charged back to a
 credit
card. But that still left a net  total of $11,165 as of Sept. 20,
way  over
the individual limit of  $4,600.

Here again, LaBolt pledged that the  contributions would be
returned but  gave
no date.

In  February, after just 93 donations, Doodad Pro had already
gone over the
$2,300  limit for the primary. He was over the $4,600 limit for
the general
election one  month later.

In response to FEC complaints, the  Obama campaign began
refunding money  to
Doodad Pro even before he reached these  limits. But his credit
card was  the
gift that kept on giving. His most  recent un-refunded
contributions were  on
July 7, when he made 14 separate  donations, apparently by credit
card,  of
$25 each.

 Just as with Mr. Good Will, there can be no doubt that the Obama
campaign
noticed  the contributions, since its Sept. 20 report specified
that Doodad's
cumulative  contributions since the beginning of the campaign
were $10,965.

Foreign  Donations

And then there are the overseas  donations - at least, the ones
that we  know
about.

The  FEC has compiled a separate database of potentially
questionable
overseas  donations that contains more than 11,500 contributions
totaling
$33.8 million.  More than 520 listed their "state" as "IR," often
an
abbreviation for Iran.  Another 63 listed it as "UK," the United
 Kingdom.

 More than 1,400 of the overseas entries clearly were U.S.
diplomats or
military  personnel, who gave an APO address overseas. Their
total
contributions came  to just $201,680.

But others came from  places as far afield as Abu Dhabi, Addis
 Ababa,
Beijing, Fallujah, Florence, Italy,  and a wide selection of
towns and  cities
in France.

Until recently, the Obama Web site allowed a contributor  to
select the
country where he resided from the entire membership of the
United Nations,
 including such friendly places as North Korea and the Islamic
Republic of
 Iran.

Unlike McCain's or Sen. Hillary  Clinton's online donation pages,
the  Obama
site did not ask for proof of  citizenship until just recently.
 Clinton's
presidential campaign required  U.S. citizens living abroad to
actually fax  a
copy of their passport before a donation  would be accepted.

With such lax vetting of  foreign contributions, the Obama
campaign  may have
indirectly contributed to  questionable fundraising by foreigners.

In  July and August, the head of the Nigeria's stock market held
a series of
pro-Obama  fundraisers in Lagos, Nigeria's largest city. The
events attracted
local  Nigerian business owners.

At one event, a table for  eight at one fundraising dinner went
for  $16,800.
Nigerian press reports claimed  sponsors raked in an estimated
 $900,000.

The sponsors said the fundraisers were held to help Nigerians
attend the
 Democratic convention in Denver. But the Nigerian press
expressed skepticism
of  that claim, and the Nigerian public anti-fraud commission is
now
investigating the  matter.

Concerns about foreign fundraising  have been raised by other
 anecdotal
accounts of illegal  activities.

In June, Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi  gave a public speech
praising  Obama,
claiming foreign nationals were  donating to his campaign.

"All the people in the  Arab and Islamic world and in Africa
 applauded this
man," the Libyan leader  said. "They welcomed him and prayed for
him  and for
his success, and they may have even  been involved in legitimate
 contribution
campaigns to enable him to win  the American presidency..."

Though Gadhafi  asserted that fundraising from Arab and African
nations were
"legitimate," the fact is  that U.S. federal law bans any
foreigner  from
donating to a U.S. election  campaign.

The rise of the Internet and use of  credit cards have made it
easier  for
foreign nationals to donate to American  campaigns, especially if
they  claim
their donation is less than  $200.

Campaign spokesman LaBolt cited  several measures that the
campaign  has
adopted to "root out fraud," including  a requirement that anyone
 attending
an Obama fundraising event  overseas present a valid U.S.
passport, and  a new
requirement that overseas  contributors must provide a passport
number  when
donating online.

One new measure that might not appear obvious at first could  be
frustrating
to foreigners wanting to buy campaign paraphernalia such as  T-
shirts or
bumper stickers through the online store.

In  response to an investigation conducted by blogger Pamela
Geller, who runs
the blog  Atlas Shrugs, the Obama campaign has locked down the

store.

Geller first revealed on July 31 that donors from the Gaza  strip
had
contributed $33,000 to the Obama campaign through bulk  purchases
of T-shirts
they had shipped to Gaza.

The online campaign store allows  buyers to complete their
purchases  by
making an additional donation to the  Obama campaign.

A pair of Palestinian  brothers named Hosam and Monir Edwan
 contributed more
than $31,300 to the Obama  campaign in October and November 2007,
FEC  records
show.

 Their largesse attracted the attention of the FEC almost
immediately. In an
April  15, 2008, report that examined the Obama campaign's year-
end figures
for 2007, the  FEC asked that some of these contributions be
reassigned.

The Obama camp complied sluggishly, prompting a more  detailed
admonishment
form the FEC on July 30.

The  Edwan brothers listed their address as "GA," as in Georgia,
although
they entered  "Gaza" or "Rafah Refugee camp" as their city of
residence on
most of the online  contribution forms.

According to the Obama  campaign, they wrongly identified
 themselves as U.S.
citizens, via a  voluntary check-off box at the time the
 donations were made.

Many of the Edwan  brothers' contributions have been purged from
the FEC
database, but they still can  be found in archived versions
available for  CRP
and other watchdog groups.

The latest Obama campaign filing shows that $891.11 still  has
not been
refunded to the Edwan brothers, despite repeated FEC warnings
and campaign
 claims that all the money was refunded in December.

A Newsmax review of the Obama campaign finance filings  found
that the FEC
had asked for the redesignation or refund of 53,828  donations,
totaling just
under $30 million.

But  none involves the donors who never appear in the Obama
campaign reports,
which  the CRP estimates at nearly half the $426.8 million the
Obama campaign
has raised  to date.

Many of the small donors participated  in online "matching"
programs,  which
allows them to hook up with other  Obama supporters and
eventually  share
e-mail addresses and blogs.

The Obama Web site described the matching contribution  program
as similar to
a public radio fundraising drive.

"Our goal is to bring 50,000 new donors into our movement  by
Friday at
midnight," campaign manager David Plouffe e-mailed supporters  on
Sept. 15.
"And if you make your first online donation today, your gift
will go twice
as  far. A previous donor has promised to match every dollar you
donate."

FEC spokesman Biersack said he was unfamiliar with the  matching
donation
drive. But he said that if donations from another donor  were
going to be
reassigned to a new donor, as the campaign suggested, "the  two

people must
agree" to do so.

 This type of matching drive probably would be legal as long as
the matching
donor  had not exceeded the $2,300 per-election limit, he said.

Obama campaign spokesman LaBolt said, "We have more than  2.5
million donors
overall, hundreds of thousands of which have participated  in
this program."

Until now, the names of those donors and where they live  have
remained
anonymous - and the federal watchdog agency in charge of
ensuring that the
 presidential campaigns play by the same rules has no tools to
find out.

© 2008 Newsmax. All rights reserved.

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Re: And now it begins	<– Date –> <– Thread –>
From: LarryT (l02turnercomcast.net)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2008 13:50:07 -0700 (PDT)