Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Motor City Christmas Card

[Mike Fleischer (themightytoe]

Clyde you are right (glad you agree with the article :)) It is not the 
same with an airline.  Because the ticket is the airline's product (and 
these days little else as service is pretty abysmal, its just a matter 
of time before they install pay toilets on flights, that will make for 
an interesting flying experience)...  I think the most I have ever spent 
on a ticket was probably a few grand, and for business travel maybe the 
most was $4800 for a last minute to Asia...  Now I just drive a shitbox 
but I paid a lot more for it than I would an airplane ticket... 

Skybus, ATA and Aloha shut down and left many travelers scrambling to 
buy return tickets (and some to make their destinations).  US airways, 
Delta, United, and Northwest managed their way through.  US airways did 
it twice for 1 year each time, United, 4 years, Delta 1 year, Northwest 
1 1/2 years.

Now if you want a similar problem:  Would you want your airline 
purchasing aircraft from Boeing knowing they are about to be bankrupt, 
already are, and they may not fill their orders for parts, service, or 
aircraft on time?  Or would you consider purchasing from Airbus as a way 
to mitigate risk to your business? 

Read the article that same argument is at the very start of it...

I suppose if the big 3 had some way to guarantee that during a 
bankruptcy they could honor vehicle warranties and service, along with 
parts and service then they would be able to help with people's fears, 
but I don't see that working for them, especially if it becomes a long 
and dragged out affair, as it likely would with all the concerned 
parties involved.  Throw that in with the second wave of default 
mortgages being predicted and 2009 looks like it is shaping up to be a 
really bad year.

My $.02


clyderomero [at] worldnet.att.net wrote:
> People have flown on bankrupt airlines for years
> There is no corrolation
>
>
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Fleischer <themightytoe [at] gmail.com>
>
> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:34:19 
> To: clyde<clyderomero [at] worldnet.att.net>
> Cc: 'The FerrariList'<ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Motor City Christmas Card
>
>
> Would you buy a brand new car from a bankrupt or about to be bankrupt 
> company?
>
> Maybe if you had your own private mechanic and parts supply?  But Joe 
> plumber doesn't and when he needs a truck for his business, he's going 
> to buy a Toyota instead of that Silverado rather than wait for the CH 11 
> proceedings to finish.
>
> No car company has survived CH11.  It would not be restructuring, it 
> would be liquidation, followed by the other car co's filing, followed by 
> more liquidation, and some of the big 3's suppliers who can not just 
> stop or reduce their production will also cease to be (like Getrag, or 
> Bosch automotive) which will impact other manufacturers who likely would 
> scoop up the remains.  At least 2.5 million jobs lost (some estimates 
> are much much higher), 10% of the US economy gone.  Its a big mess, and 
> a big deal.  What happens to the price of a Camry when most of its 
> competitors drop out, and the supply of Camry's is the same?  Yikes...
>
> Personally it makes me want to stock up on ammo just in case, and then 
> I'd need to go buy a gun...
>
> Here is a good read from the "liberal media"
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/24/opinion/24abraham.html?ref=opinion
>
> BR,
> Mike
>
>
> Steve Jenkins wrote:
>   
> > As part-maker of the loan, I'm curious as to what is the collateral on the
> > loan?
> >
> > I'm a fan of chapter 11 for the "big" three. It's doesn't mean they have to
> > go out of business - it means they have to re-organize, they have greater
> > ability to strong-arm the unions (don't get me started on unions - they were
> > necessary "back in the day" but have far outlived their necessity) and they
> > can restructure some of their debt. Airlines who've done it (United, Delta,
> > NWA) are all still alive and kicking. Of course, it didn't work for Aloha
> > Airlines - but staying in business is not the right of any organization,
> > it's a privilege afforded it by its customers.
> >
> > SJ
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lee S. Lingo [mailto:LeesCars [at] comcast.net] 
> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:25 AM
> > To: Steve Jenkins
> > Cc: 'The FerrariList'
> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Motor City Christmas Card
> >
> > Yeah, this has been floating around for a month or so.  It's unfortunate
> > that it plays to the stereotype that the "Southern Senators" are claiming.
> > Sen.'s Bob Corker (TN), Mitch McConnell (KY), Jim Bunning (KY) and Richard
> > Shelby (AL) are some of the more outspoken leaders of the anti-American
> > sentiment where it pertains to the automotive industry.
> >
> > I know that it's a lot of political posturing, but I find it unbelievable
> > that they are pushing out the US Auto makers and feel that they are in no
> > need of assistance just because they have some foreign auto manufacturer's
> > in their state.  Those manufacturers, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and
> > Mercedes-Benz chose those locations because of intense lobbying by those
> > states and the subsidies in taxes and such.  Those five manufacturers all
> > use parts vendors that also provide parts to the US auto makers.  If one or
> > more of the US auto makers go down, their inability to pay their vendors
> > will cause significant hardship, and most likely, closing of the vendors at
> > least temporarily should sufficient credit be available which will in turn
> > affect the foreign makers.  They're all tied together.
> >
> > And I'm sick to death of the term bailout being bandied back and forth.
> > It's a bridge loan...
> >
> > Sorry Charles, but this issue REALLY gets my goat.
> >
> > Lee
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Charles Perry [mailto:charles [at] carolina-sound.com] 
> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:20 AM
> > To: Lee Lingo
> > Cc: The FerrariList
> > Subject: [Ferrari] Motor City Christmas Card
> >
> >
> > Amusing, in a sad way...
> >
> > -- charles
> >
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