Ferrari Mailing List: Re: SAY IT AIN'T SO

[E M (pokiebaron]

On 12 November 2010 20:30, LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

I view panel fit as an indication of good quality control, just as I view how leather will stand up to sun exposure.  I have friends with old Morgans; sometimes the doors close nicely, sometimes not at all.  All depends on how much it rained the day before. ;-)  They wouldn't own any other sports car, and are convinced they're the best cars ever made.  And for them, they are.

A fun car, doesn't have to be a good car or a well made car, just as a good, well made car isn't always a fun car. 

I know panel fit isn't important to everyone, but when most Ferraris are being restored or freshened, most people opt to tidy up the panels and paint, over factory.  I like the patina and charm of slightly misfitting panels, if it's on some old beast with hand hammered aluminum.  If it's just a stamped piece, I like it bolted on straight.

I'd really like to see a high mileage Ferrari, I just don't know of any.  I've read where several 308s have reached 200K+ miles, without ever having the heads off, but I've never known of one personally.  I know Clyde pushed his old 308 up to 140K or something, so we'll have to cheer him on and see how many miles he can squeeze out of that old 512 before he turns it in. :-)

Ed
911SC

Ed, you associate things like panel fit with whether a car is good or not. That may be important to you, but not to everyone.

The old Ferraris are as reliable if not more than the new ones or any Porsche.

If given the choice between a new Ferrari or a Porsche, I would honestly rather punch myself in the nuts first.

But, at least the Ferrari would guarantee a parking space out in front.

LS

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From: E M <pokiebaron [at] gmail.com>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com

Sent: Fri, November 12, 2010 8:15:04 PM

Subject: Re: [Ferrari] SAY IT AIN'T SO

Porsche and Mercedes are now building proper cars again, after a decade of building cars down to a cost, some of which in my opinion were junk.  I was amazed at the panel fit when I had a really good look at a 550 a few years back.  For me, that car was the turning point for Ferrari.

I still stand by what I said regarding real world driving though.  Take a new Ferrari, and a new Porsche.  Rip up both warranties, drive them daily, year round for 5 years.  Subject them both to the same mileage, weather, and occasional weekend DE flogging, and I'd pin my money on the Porsche.  That's not to say I wouldn't love to park a Ferrari in my garage.  :-)

I do still feel bad, even after apologizing to a fellow profusely, for drooling all over his parked 458.  If only they offered the car with a manual trans! 

Ed
911SC

On 12 November 2010 19:39, LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

" I think Ferraris would show themselves to  be not quite at the durability level of Porsche, or several other Germany brands."

In 1981 maybe, not anymore Ed!!!

It's a different world....the German cars have reputations and comprehensive warranties now.

Now, if they could only find the soldering gun and multimeter.

LS

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From: E M <pokiebaron [at] gmail.com>

To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
Sent: Fri, November 12, 2010 4:49:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] SAY IT AIN'T SO

I would imagine Fiat's money is what pretty much keeps the Maser brand going.  As for independence, as far as I know, Ferrari road cars, and I believe their F1 efforts too, are owned by Fiat.  Not a bad thing, for Ferrari or their owners. 

I don't think Ferrari is so much keeping Maserati going.  I think it's more due to Fiat willing to put more money into developing an engine and other bits, knowing it will be shared with a few models.  The economy of scale in ways.

I think Ferrari have come a long long way with build quality, and reliability, but I don't think they're doing anything the Germans are worried about.  Take any Ferrari model, and a random Porsche model.  Drive both the same miles, over 5 years, through all weather conditions (real winters, salt, parked outside in the hot sun, and of course, flogged on the track on weekends), and see how they both compare in the end.

Hope you don't take this post the wrong way, I LUUUV Ferraris, but subjected to the same beatings a lot of Porsches get, I think Ferraris would show themselves to  be not quite at the durability level of Porsche, or several other Germany brands.

Ed
911SC

On 12 November 2010 16:22, Michael James <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

Dale-

 

If it wasn't for the Ferrari infustion of cash and Ferrari-engineered/built drivetrains, Maserati would no longer exist.  Who provided Showroom floor-space for the Maser re-introduction into the US?  Whose cash STILL keeps the company afloat?  I rest my case.

 

Unlike Lambo, whose independence-demise could be directly tagged to their quality issues, Ferrari doesn't have that problem.  Ferrari could probably teach VW a thing or two about quality these days - all the German brands are suffering, limping-by on their 'prestige'.  Ferrari is not vulnerable, nor is there a need for new ideas at Maranello that German engineering would be welcome. 

 

M

--- On Thu, 11/11/10, dale sailors <sailorsdaleedward [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

From: dale sailors <sailorsdaleedward [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ferrari] SAY IT AIN'T SO
To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
Date: Thursday, November 11, 2010, 3:47 PM

Hello,

           VW buying FERRARI in part? Wow!

            I've owned two VW Things (Type 181) and known several advanced VW tuners of the air cooled flat 4 motors. Interesting but quality conttrol and finish was iffy. Parts get high quick too. Just try pricing a set of side curtains whose windows yellow in 24 months, a wiper motor or anything for the 1973 gas heater! I had some negative experience too with the early diesel RABBIT (admittedly on Mexico sourced diesel fuel). The Mexico made HORMIGA heavy truck based on the RABBIT was durable if bog slow though.

            BUGGATI and LAMBORGHINI have survived VW ownership fairly well it seems? I can't see FERRARI and LAMBO with the same owner though. I would even hate to see VW get MASERATI, the "trident" has suffered enough under FIATand FERRARI (of course my idea of MASERATI is a TYPO 60/61/6364/65 or

151 or 450S. FIAT should keep ALFA ROMEO too, it complements FERRARI and MASERATI nicely. If anything FIAT should dump CHRYSLER on VW.

              Just my ideas,

               Dale 

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