Certainly I haven't had a lot of time in or under a Mustang... So
yep opinions only here. But I have many opinions having instructed
for several years for PCA and BMW events (and some other groups
also) about many cars :). Some examples:
1. A 600+ rwhp Supra doesn't belong in the Green run group or on a
road course
2. A 1st gen Viper GTS is always a handful
3. Winston cup cars you win in a lottery at a NASCAR race should
not be driven on a road course without proper setup
4. Doing pretty much anything to an Acura NSX will turn its motor
into a grenade
5. A well driven 914 is faster than a poorly driven 911 Cup car
6. Early 70's 911's and 1st Gen M3's are quite possibly the most
fun to drive road course cars ever built.
7. If you show to a PCA event as an instructor in a Z06 Vette, you
WILL not get to drive the Carrera GT, but you will end up with the
students who brought their Lingenfelter Vette or Viper GTS with
nitrous.
Yeah if I make it out to DC next year I'll let you know and try and
get a free day or two :) Sounds like fun :)
Looks like a decent car in the video, not a huge fan of the 3 foot
shifter though. Lots of OTE there though and nice awareness by the
blue Vette. I'd hate to wad up a 350GT mustang (even if I wouldn't
want to own one, I still recognize others love them).
Mike
On 12/6/2010 9:03 PM, LS wrote:
Mike, not stung at all...you said that you've really driven
a Mustang setup properly...so...that's pretty much it right?
The rest is opinions?
That's why we have a social list like this...to share our
opinions.
I am serious about my invite though...come out to DC next
spring. You can meet all of my "pet" driving buddies. Besides
the T/A and GTP driver, there's another that runs vintage F1
currently (ex-Villenueve 312T5 and '97 F310B) and the other
friend that just got a podium at the Targa Newfoundland in a
911GT2.
I'll have my Shelby there and whatever Italian exotic I end up
with this winter. It's a good time especially if your track
experience has been limited to street/stock/regular cars so
far.
For some empirical evidence, check out this guy risk death and
accusations of bad taste in his GT350 against Corvettes and
Ferraris:
Hey man I can see you may be a little stung here, sorry.
And no I have not driven any Mustang that made me get out
and say "wow I want to drive that again" or "man wish that
were parked in my garage"...
I have driven several mustangs, I grew up in Detroit, half
my friends had 5.0's growing up, and had the opportunity to
drive a Cobra R on a track but deferred (took my M3 out
instead). Really did not like the funky angle on the
shifter that car had.
Just about any car can be dialed in for track use and be
quite nice. I have driven some truly fantastic 911's :)
This would also explain how Winston cup cars can actually do
well on a road course. I have no reason to doubt yours is
in that arena? But you mean to tell me you'd take the same
car from the showroom and stick it on a track and your pet
Pro driver would call it faultless? Really? Its got brakes
from a Taurus? And while you may have yours dialed in
perfectly, the other 3 million mustang drivers might not...
And don't start saying I am bashing Fords... I have driven
some of their nicer cars, including the Euro model Escorts a
freind's brother had one he raced, and even a Sierra
Cosworth (freind's Dad)... Though I never did get to drive
an RS200... So Ford does make sports cars and I wouldn't
consider the GT40 one of them really since Saleen made those
I think?
Mike
On 12/6/2010 5:19 PM, LS wrote:
"I'm not a marquee guy, I like a car that's fun to
drive first and a pretty face second... A mustang has
never had either for me :) For the money I'd rather
have a Miata (or my GTI for that matter)."
Alright, you finally admitted that you don't like
Mustangs and that you've never driven one properly
setup for the road course.
So, how can you have an opinion on their abilities? I
haven't seen any facts or tech yet...
Come out to DC and you're welcome to drive my Cobra or
the Shelby when it's done.
An ex-pro driver described my Cobra as "faultless"
after 15 laps at Summit Pt in it... And he was a
*winning* Trans Am and IMSA GTP driver. He's turned a
0:59 second lap at Summit Pt in a Porsche 962.
Mike, do you know something that this guy doesn't?
If so, you should be driving a Le Mans prototype or
consulting for Williams F1.
The big boys race and/or build their own cars...they
don't do track events or point people by.
And if I owned a BMW? A Porsche? a VW GTI? Or a
Ferrari? Would it still be hypocrisy to state the
stang is in general a dog on a road course?
Because I'd rather have any of those other cars on a
race course, and if a Vette was in the mix, and I
didn't want to point anyone by, make it a Z06 with
ZR1 brakes... And I can state pretty confidently
anything shy of a full race car is going to have a
hell of a time finding me. No one would put money
on your Mustang.
I'm not a marquee guy, I like a car that's fun to
drive first and a pretty face second... A mustang
has never had either for me :) For the money I'd
rather have a Miata (or my GTI for that matter).
Mike
On 12/6/10 4:48 PM, Michael James wrote:
Aside from the fact that both cars
aren't-exactly made from the finest of
materials or workmanship, I wouldn't put
both machines in the same category.
Each is designed, engineered, and sold
to different market segments. I'm of
the opinion that the only Sports Car
ever made by the Ford Motor Company was
the GT-40, its latest variant, and
that's it. Everything else is just a
family-hauling,
mass-produced grocery-getter with a big
engine. Nothing wrong with that.....
No seriously I have yet to be on
track with a fast Mustang...
race prepped or otherwise. Not
many in the instructors groups
anyhow, but even students groups
they are few and far between.
Honestly the ones I have seen
have not been spectacular in
either their lap times or their
reliability. There was a guy
with a tricked out orange Cobra
R, and it was fast until he
dumped his dry-sump's contents
at the exit of Wagon wheel...
Also I don't pay much attention
to what they do in SCCA but I
understand they are pretty
dominant in their class... That
said, I am sure there are some
good ones. The November
Automobile mag has a section on
Mustang racing, I think its like
2 pages long and covered the new
Boss 302R? It also has the ten
best Mustangs of all time... An
84 Mustang SVO? Honestly some
of those cars are just dogs...
Solid rear axles belong on an
oval :) Probably why Ford has
one in their logo as a
reminder...
BR,
Mike
(And yes I am wearing my Nomex
shorts today)
On 12/5/2010 10:31 AM, LS
wrotes:
FG, Mike's been
around for a while and
done track
events...he's messin'
around!
Mustangs have a pretty
ridiculous record in
road course racing, so
there's not much
"knowledge" we're
going to uncover on
their abilities here.
That's why we have our
local public library
and Google!
Just a tidbit since
I'm on the brink of a
full road course build
on the '66 GT350. A
local friend runs SVRA
events, mostly along
the east coast, in a
'66 GT350. His best
lap at Summit Pt is
within 0.5 seconds of
a professionally track
prepped E46 M3 (which
tied the GTS3 record
at VIR).
Not bad...for a 45 yr
old car with drum
brakes and leaf
springs! So, I guess
you could say they're
not too shabby on a
road course.
Mike,
tough to hear
the comments
from someone
who's never
owned one
setup for the
road course
correct?
They're
excellent
track cars and
are
***stupendously***
reliable just
like your
Vette. The
drivetrains
are 100%
bulletproof if
maintained
properly and
not abused.
Nothing ever
breaks. Who
knows what was
going on with
one in the
video...judging
from the
visible mods,
it was prob
well over
600rwhp.
I know, I have
three now and
I've had four
that I have
religiously
and surgically
maintained and
also totally
thrashed on
the road
courses, ax
events, road
rallies, etc.
The 97 Cobra
track car I
have now,
which is
suprisingly
stock, is
*beautiful* on
the track.
Perfect 4
wheel drifts,
ridiculous
turn in,
incredibly
balanced. The
brakes (Cobra
R front
Brembos) are
among the best
I've felt on
any car.
"Never bring a
kids toy to a
grownup's
track :)"
Hilarious...if
a properly
setup Mustang
is not turning
fast laps at a
track, it's
the driver's
problem not
the car.
LS
Mike,
As much as I'd like
to share your GM
bias here (hehe), I
believe LS is right
here...
Plus our buddy Nick
had a late '80s
/early '90s stang
that he tracked
quite a bit and did
well with.
FG
_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
gmail.com)