True, although there aren't many folks who would line-up to spend $40K to rebuild an engine for a car that is only worth $30K
after the work has been completed.....and there's the rub.
M
--- On Mon, 9/17/12, LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Likely Future 308 Price Appreciation
To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Monday, September 17, 2012, 12:21 PM
"and what point are you driving Pininfarina's version of the Pantera? "
Prob never, unless you add twin turbos.
Caribou's engine works seems pretty good...they sure are able to get the numbers.
$40k isn't too bad...about the going rate for any professional engine build regardless of make.
LS
central
wines-spirits est 1934
625 e street nw
washington, dc 20004
202-737-2800
From: Michael James <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Likely Future 308 Price Appreciation
|
I've bought from Caribou - they'll gladly hot-rod your 308 engine using lots of aftermarket and custom-fabricated parts. For around $40,000++ However, the more aftermarket crap you stuff into a Ferrari, the less original it is, and the less it is worth. At what point are you driving a Ferrari, and what point are you driving Pininfarina's version of the Pantera?
The trouble with today's aftermarket parts is that Ferrari's OEM suppliers were less-than-forthcoming with the specifications many of them were made under, and the engineers at these aftermarket parts places are not doing due-diligence in their reverse-engineering efforts. If the overall parts market were much-larger, they would probably try harder but they aren't...buyer beware.
M
--- On Sat, 9/15/12, Fellippe Galletta <fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com> wrote:
From: Fellippe Galletta <fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Likely Future 308 Price Appreciation
To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Saturday, September 15, 2012, 3:44 PM
I think with companies like Carobu around, I wouldn't be so worried about OEM parts. And a lot could always be improved anyways. FG
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Michael James <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
|
These cars were NOT meant to 'sit' for decades in a garage somewhere, waiting to be discovered as lost treasure - an aluminum-drivetrain car that sits like that will need an engine rebuild. That is a fact. Mine sat for 12 years, and my pricetag for that neglect is about 20% more than the purchase price of the car itself, and I did NOT buy at a discount. The "big question" is HOW MUCH for that engine rebuild, vs. the cost of 'return on investment'. In Ferrari 308 terms, the maintenance costs already exceed value - 308s would need to gain at-least 25% of current values just to break-even, and parts prices are still climbing faster than values. If you were to rebuild a 308 engine today, it is doubtful that you would even FIND some of the parts needed to complete your effort and return the engine to OEM specifications, something the collector market requires to turn a car into a collector commodity.
This is trending in directions that do not support the level of nostalgia for these machines needed to keep them on the road much longer.
If your passion exceeds one's 'care' about ROI, then this discussion is moot. But the OP asked about ROI - and the 308 does NOT meet the criteria.
From: fer308qv [at] aol.com <fer308qv [at] aol.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Likely Future 308 Price Appreciation
Date: Friday, September 14, 2012, 11:57 AM
Strongly disagree. Its a sleeping classic. Pull a nice one out of the garage in 30 years. Qvs gts produced 3042?
Sent from my Motorola Smartphone on the Now Network from Sprint! -----Original message-----
No 308 regardless of who's ass sat in it will be worth more than $20k in the future
The only car that mimic it in price is the dreaded 348 shit box
If you think buying a 308 is going to make you money
Buy some RIM stock as well
They are blackberry
Clyde
Sent from my iPhone
Here is my take on the hierarchy of the 308 line as desirability according to the original question:
#1 - Euro Fiberglass - this was the only one that was dry sump. But only do an unadulterated one that has not been Federalized, or at least in no discernible way.
#2 - US Fiberglass
Further note on Fiberglass cars - These already trade a a major premium to the rest of the 308 market. There was not GTS ever as a fiberglass.
#3 - non cat steel, 1977. If one could come up with a non-cat GTS that would be special.
#4 - QV. As a durability issue the 1984 and 1985 have better rust proofing.
Although there are some people that do prefer the federalized Euro over a US version I do not unless it is de-converted.
Originality - no aftermarket changes. No color changes.
GTB vs. GTS - a personal preference issue. GTB proponents will argue about the lower production rates and somewhat stiffer body.
Condition - start with the right car don't try resurrection unless you are a masochist and doing the all work yourself plus get parts at wholesale.
Mileage - be careful about the low mileage cars. They could be a bunch more mileage than that if the speedo cable had been disconnected. Also be real careful that low mileage (under 30K) is also going to mean that driving the car will be devaluing it.
So there is my take.
Jeff
From: Larry Bard [mailto:larrybard [at] hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 14 September 2012 7:07 AM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: [Ferrari] Likely Future 308 Price Appreciation
(Yeah, I know we covet Ferraris because we love them, not because we think we'll make money if we ever sell them, but I'm asking for a friend. Really.)
A friend who is an extremely capable and experienced mechanic asked me which 308s were likely to appreciate over the next 10 years or so. Not being even remotely competent to answer that question myself, I thought I would pass it along to this list, whose members doubtlessly are better able to intelligently formulate reasonable answers.
The friend who is asking has a very limited budget, doesn't seem to have performance as high on his list as most would-be owners might, likes old classics, and specifically asked about possible appreciation over something like the next 10 years. My guess is that he is in fact far less interested in the possibility of making any money, and much more interested in avoiding any serious loss
if he were to buy one and sell it in about 10 years (though I am personally inclined to believe that any well maintained 308 is likely to at least hold its value over the next 10 years, assuming one buys it at not too far in excess of the "Clyde" price).
I know the QVs have always been highly regarded, but what do all of you think about specific model years, etc? European 308 GTBi/GTSi QV? Relatively rarer fiberglass rather than steel? Injection vs. carburetor?
Any words of wisdom I could pass along to my friend would be greatly appreciated.
Larry
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