Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Ferrari Digest, Vol 113, Issue 48

[Fellippe Galletta (fellippe.galletta]

In that respect I totally agree, about pot calling the kettle black.

But we both know that our boy will never admit to it. Perhaps Fiorano track testing solved the issues in his mind. :)

The irony is that I love the boxers and testarossas and don't really care about their faults. 

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015, Peter Pless <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au> wrote:

Well, Lamborghini got it right with the cars of the BB512/testa/512TR era, more or less, with the gearbox in front of the engine. Not ideal, but certainly better than Ferrari’s effort IMO.

 

Whilst I agree with what you wrote, my point is nothing more than the layout in the BB, tr, 512 etc caused massive trailing throttle oversteer, so for the owner of a 512TR to make fun of Porsches for that reason is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black. That’s all. The overall merits of engine layouts/positions is a completely different conversation.

 

I don’t have a problem with Clyde poking fun of every car under the sun, apart from his of course, but this particular point tickled my funny bone.

 

 

From: Fellippe Galletta [mailto:fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2015 5:58 AM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: Ferrari List
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ferrari Digest, Vol 113, Issue 48

 

Peter,

 

I wouldn't dismiss the mid-engine layout and call the front engine superior.

 

From what I gathered in the rags back when the 550 Maranello came out, front was good enough for 99% of drivers (even really good ones). 

 

Over time we moved from tactile sensations in our exotics (manual steering, heavy shifters and clutches) to outright delivery of performance (semi-auto transmissions primarily), so front solved the liability issue.

 

Also, front was/is better for packaging. This is the bigger reason for it, with the above being the justification to the enthusiasts. 

 

Mid-engine was mostly relegated to the exotic-ness of it, looks wise, sound wise, etc. There's a practical limit to the exotic look a front engined car can have, which is why all the hyper car Fs are still mid-engined, even though I'm sure they could/would engineer a front engined beast to compete with the 918 or P1. Since there's no practical element whatsoever to those line of cars, it will forever be mid engined.

 

At the same time, hard to make that proper gentleman's GT in mid engine I think. Which is why you'll probably never see your derivative Aston Martin in anything but front engined configuration.

 

FG

 

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 1:44 PM, Peter Pless <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au> wrote:

Lol…they improved the brakes maybe, but they weren’t “fixed”…not by a long shot

 

The person who came up with putting the engine above the gearbox should be shot!...AND…how many cylinders behind the rear wheels? 4? Center of gravity just below moon level. If they were so good, why don’t they make them any more? They went back to the Daytona front engine V12 design!

 

Let’s face it, those cars were designed to do high speeds in straight lines, and they did it well……but start throwing corners into the mix and I’d rather be in any same period Porsche thanks!

 

Come on Clyde, we all love our cars, but we have to accept their flaws, no matter how bad….and for the owner of a 512TR to pick on any other car because it’s (allegedly) tail happy is comical.

 

Personally, I’ve only driven Porsches from the ‘80s on, and I found them far from tail happy. They have better rear grip than anything I’ve ever driven and with the engine down so low, the cornering is always excellent….BUT…correct set up is critical.

 

Peter

 

From: clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com [mailto:clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2015 5:31 AM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: Ferrari List
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ferrari Digest, Vol 113, Issue 48

 

They fixed the brake issue in the 512 TR

Clyde Romero

 

If you have no enemies

You have no character ! 

 

In Victory you deserve Champagne

In Defeat You Need It!

If you obey all the rules

You miss all the fun !

 

 

 

 

 

On Dec 28, 2015, at 12:38 PM, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:

The TR’s were definitely not track ready, especially the brakes.  I’ll defer to Charles to explain exactly what he said when the middle pedal went to the floor with nothing happening at Talledega many years ago...

 

 

On Dec 28, 2015, at 11:35 AM, Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:

 

Well, there is that....

 

In my world (not recommended for anyone), the TRs were never really "sports cars" intended for cornering as Peter brought up.  They were built for the US market, point and shoot, freeway eaters.  And they are damn good at that!  Get near a track and I'd bet on the German tail slapper.   Unless said track has a really long straight. 

 

Just my 2 pesos...

Rick

On Dec 28, 2015, at 8:41 AM, Fellippe Galletta <fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Or that TTO is one of the few appealing things about an older 911.....for those that can handle it at least.

 

 

 

On Sun, Dec 27, 2015 at 6:41 AM, Peter Pless <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au> wrote:

Is anyone else amused that the owner of a 512TR makes fun of a Porsche for having trailing throttle oversteer? 

 

Just sayin’

 

From: Doug & Terri [mailto:dnt [at] dock.net] 
Sent: Sunday, 27 December 2015 4:59 PM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: 'Ferrari List'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ferrari Digest, Vol 113, Issue 48

 

RM notes “That was always the fun of coming up behind a 911 variant on track.”

 

Picture this – 1978 Lemans – The Porsche 935’s twin KKK turbos were getting beaten right at the end of the Mulsanne Straight.  After the race, Porsche guys talked with Renault team and asked them how they always managed to snooker them at that corner.  Easy was the reply – going down Mulsanne Straight you turbos turn white hot.  When our driver saw them go from white to yellow to orange - - - we knew you were off the gas.  Voila.  Snooker.

DOUG

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