Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Ferrari Digest, Vol 116, Issue 43

[Fellippe Galletta (fellippe.galletta]

This whole topic was a thinly veiled subterfuge at diminishing the Maranello and pumping up the 512 TR....

;-)

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 6:24 AM, <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Boss for vindicating what I said earlier about the bags 

I totally forgot about the restraint systems that are tied into it 

Your the man 

Clyde Romero

If you have no enemies

You have no character ! 

In Victory you deserve Champagne

In Defeat You Need It!

If you obey all the rules

You miss all the fun !

On Mar 22, 2016, at 7:29 PM, Dennis Burleson <d_burles [at] bellsouth.net> wrote:

I have a friend who runs an auto body repair shop. He deals with this "air bag" stuff all the time. Yes, there is an air bag controller, usually called a sensing/diagnostic module. Then the air bags; steering wheel bags, passenger side air bags, seat bags, side curtain bags,  knee bolster bags, and on and on... This doesn't even get into "occupant classification system" modules. And don't forget the buckles and belt retractors that blow once the car has been in a bag deploying accident.

These cars are usually totaled. But that doesn't stop someone here in NC from purchasing the car, having it repaired, and then NC DOT inspecting the vehicle and slapping on a "salvage" sticker and issuing a salvage title. There are two brothers here that deal with these salvage cars and have made MILLIONS doing it.

Off track a little....

In response to Clyde's comment; Since we are discussing a Ferrari 575, I would be pretty confident in stating that the air bag controller, like all other electronics on all other vehicles, is full of proprietary software. Having said that, my friend at the body shop sends his air bag controllers to myairbag, located somewhere in Clyde's home state of GA, and for the sum of $49 plus shipping, they "reset" the controller, send it back to you, you put it back in, make sure you replaced all the belts, crash sensors, bags, etc. that were messed up in the wreck, and viola! the air bag light goes off and you are good to go! But, I'm willing to bet that this would not be the case with a 575, as the company has to be able to access the crash data to reflash the controller and get rid of "latch codes." Also, as previously stated, this stuff has to work, or the SRS light is on and the system is non-functioning.

This is where the air bags filled with cigarette packs, "burned out" SRS lights, and other modifications factor into the idea of "driving it anyway." All's good until that fateful accident. Then the attorneys come out of the woodwork, grab the black box and start looking for incriminating evidence. Grandmaw can probably get away with a faulty SRS system in a Honda Civic, but behind the wheel in a Ferrari? In my neck of the woods, if you drive a Ferrari, you got the dough! Clyde is correct, Totaled!

PS: Close to 30 odd years ago, a car dealer I knew was looking at a Porsche 944. It was what we called a "bump car." Bumped just enough to damage the front bumper and hood. The car ran and was driveable. The dealer was about to bid on the car when someone walked behind him and whispered in his ear, "It'll cost you $10 grand to put the air bags back in." The dealer walked away. It doesn't take much to total a car with bags.

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 7:13 PM, "ferrari-request [at] ferrarilist.com" <ferrari-request [at] ferrarilist.com> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: General Ferrari/exotic market cycle (Erik Nielsen)
  2. Re: 550/575 Air Bag ECU (Doug & Terri)
  3. Re: 550/575 Air Bag ECU (John Ashburne)
  4. Re: General Ferrari/exotic market cycle (Brian E. Buxton)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 17:21:37 -0500
From: Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com>
To: "Robert W. Garven Jr." <rgarven [at] gmail.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] General Ferrari/exotic market cycle
Message-ID: <67BC4D33-EB3E-4479-88E9-4A7B95255B21 [at] gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

And why my last purchase was a 1976 Rolls Royce.  One that I just spent 84% of the purchase price again just for the parts to rebuild the brake system.

> On Mar 22, 2016, at 5:10 PM, Robert W. Garven Jr. <rgarven [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That is why i just bought a 1974 Dino !!!!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 22, 2016, at 1:59 PM, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com <mailto:judge4re [at] gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>> Not providing legal advice, but then again, that activity is illegal under most state codes.  Ohio as an quick example.
>>
>> http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4549.20v1 <http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4549.20v1>
>>
>> See section B.
>>
>> (B) <> No person shall install or reinstall in any motor vehicle a counterfeit or nonfunctional air bag or any object intended to fulfill the function of an air bag other than an air bag that was designed in conformance with or that is regulated by federal motor vehicle safety standard number 208 for the make, model, and model year of the vehicle, knowing that the object is not in accordance with that standard.
>>
>> Clyde is right, if the part to repair it back to the legal standard is not available, off the road it goes.
>>
>> Let's not even get started with tort law assuming someone is injured because of a non functioning supplemental restraint system...
>>
>> If you want to play design engineer at home, it makes a lot of sense to start with a chassis made prior to 1967.
>>
>> Careful what you recommend Fellippe, those PE letters after your name come with a tremendous amount of public safety responsibility.
>>
>> YMMV,
>> Erik
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Fellippe Galletta <fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com <mailto:fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com>> wrote:
>> I was gonna say...
>>
>> Perfect excuse to go aftermarket MOMO, lose the airbag feel.......
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Brian E. Buxton <BrianBuxton [at] buxtonmotorsports.com <mailto:BrianBuxton [at] buxtonmotorsports.com>> wrote:
>> Can't you drive it without an airbag?  Like every pre-1986 vehicle?
>>
>> <buxtonsig.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/16 7:57 AM, clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com <mailto:clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Oh here is one for the list
>>> If your own a 550/575 and blow the air bag
>>> The car is totaled
>>> Because there are NO AIR BAG ECU's available anywhere !
>>>
>>>
>>> In victory you deserve Champagne
>>> In defeat you need it!
>>>
>>>     
>>>
>>> Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
>>>
>>> If you follow all the rules
>>> You miss all the fun!
>>>
>>> If you have no enemies, you have no character !
>>>
>>> Clyde Romero   
>>>
>>>
>>> Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.
>>> This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at  <mailto:Clyde.romerof4 [at] gmail.com>Clyde.romerof4 [at] gmail.com <mailto:Clyde.romerof4 [at] gmail.com> or  by telephone at (678 6419932 <tel:%28678%206419932>)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.
>>>
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 8:22 AM, Erik Nielsen < <mailto:judge4re [at] gmail.com>judge4re [at] gmail.com <mailto:judge4re [at] gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ah, ?there will be too many?.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, that?s the problem, they made too many of them.  The question is how proprietary are the bits that go on a Ferrari compared to the rest of Magnetti Marelli and Bosch bits?  I think it is going to be a bigger challenge than most think.  Especially if someone is trying to bring one back from the dead.
>>>>
>>>> Let?s face it, there are F40s out there that are not running because of electrical component availability.  If someone hasn?t reversed engineered bits for a $1 Mio + car yet, do you think that 360s are going to turn into parts cars?
>>>>
>>>> If I can pull off getting a ninth/tenth car without my wife buying a wood chipper, it will be earlier than what I have today.  Likely something that has decent spares availability. 
>>>>
>>>> Erik
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 12:08 AM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com <mailto:dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Nah, for me, I'm dropping the Ford Coyote 5.0 into the back of a 360... ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> The whole electronics thing, I think, will be worked around.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a number of stand-alone, DIY engine management systems available today that can plug-N-play with a lot of OEM sensors and can drive variable valve timing, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where there's a will, there will be a way. There'll be too many of these great cars laying around, that someone out there will reverse-engineer ECUs to make them work again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Major metropolises will enforce electric only, but I see it limited only to core city centers. (Physically) bigger countries can't be entirely electric. Also, all of those new electric cars will need to be charged... With existing, aging infrastructure. We're putting more demands on the electric grid now, so how are we going to put more on it in the future? Unless, there are MASSIVE upgrades, I don't see it taking off too soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think it will be as dire as most people predict.
>>>>>
>>>>> At 39, I've got time on my side that I think a lot of the great cars that slipped through my hands recently, will come back again :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: Ferrari < <mailto:ferrari-bounces+dino308gt4=hotmail.com [at] ferrarilist.com>ferrari-bounces+dino308gt4=hotmail.com [at] ferrarilist.com <mailto:ferrari-bounces+dino308gt4=hotmail.com [at] ferrarilist.com>> on behalf of Doug & Terri < <mailto:dnt [at] dock.net>dnt [at] dock.net <mailto:dnt [at] dock.net>>
>>>>> Sent: March 20, 2016 11:28 AM
>>>>> To: PeterGT4
>>>>> Cc: 'The FerrariList'
>>>>> Subject: [Ferrari] FW:  General Ferrari/exotic market cycle
>>>>>
>>>>> True true, Erik
>>>>>
>>>>> What with modern cars requiring $40,000 in electronic testing equipment ? AND the know how to use and diagnose let alone repair ? I fear the brink is sometime in late 80?s to early 90?s.  Then the hot set up will be Chevy crate motor adapted to an F360 - - - alas.
>>>>>
>>>>> DOUG
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: "Erik Nielsen"
>>>>> Sent 3/20/2016 10:31:33 AM
>>>>> To: "DOUG"
>>>>> Cc: "The FerrariList"
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] General Ferrari/exotic market cycle
>>>>>
>>>>> 30 years from now, most of the ?expensive? cars from the 60?s will come back to reality, those that remember them in the day and lusted after them will be dead.  Look what happened to brass era cars.  Even pre-war cars have a very limited following, unless they still have a standing class at major concours events.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 15:39:48 -0700
From: "Doug & Terri" <dnt [at] dock.net>
To: "'David'" <david [at] tynerroberts.com>
Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 550/575 Air Bag ECU
Message-ID: <000001d1848b$bd59e200$380da600$@dock.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

David correctly notes re a vehicle total ". . . or, the car has been
underwater. . "



In Kalifornia - if a vehicle has had even 'clean' water half way up the
inside door panel the vehicle is totaled.  Clean water was defined as two
parts H, one part O.  It doesn't need to be sea or flood waters.



DOUG




From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+dnt=dock.net [at] ferrarilist.com] On
Behalf Of David
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 3:07 PM
To: DOUG <dnt [at] dock.net>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 550/575 Air Bag ECU



100& correct on all counts, except the laughable idea of buying one that's
wrecked to get the airbag and ECU out of it.

All wrecked Ferraris have had the airbags go off, rendering the ECU and
obviously the airbag useless, or, the car has been underwater. In the slight
chance the airbag does not go off, that and the ECU are sold off to put
someone's kid through college for another year.

On 03/22/2016 02:53 PM, clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com
<mailto:clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com>  wrote:

Dick call around

But I am standing by what I posted

Air bag goes off

No factory replacement

Car totaled

Clyde Romero



If you have no enemies

You have no character !



In Victory you deserve Champagne

In Defeat You Need It!


<http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d50199eadaa3846040c76511e/images/Screen_shot_2
013_05_29_at_9.18.02_AM.png>

If you obey all the rules

You miss all the fun !


















On Mar 22, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Dick Petrick <rtpetrick [at] comcast.net
<mailto:rtpetrick [at] comcast.net> > wrote:

Clyde.

I can understand that the OEM Air Bag ECU may not available, but are you
saying that there is no fix possible?

How is it that the entire automobile is totaled?

That doesn't sound right to me, but I do believe that your knowledge of
things Ferrari is accurate.

I've got a 2005  575M F1... so naturally, you raise concerns.

On 3/22/16 7:57 AM, clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com <mailto:clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com>
wrote:

>

> Oh here is one for the list

> If your own a 550/575 and blow the air bag The car is totaled Because

> there are NO AIR BAG ECU's available anywhere !

>

>

> In victory you deserve Champagne

> In defeat you need it!

>

>



Regards,

Dick Petrick







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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 19:10:44 -0400
From: John Ashburne <jashburne [at] aol.com>
To: "clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com" <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 550/575 Air Bag ECU
Message-ID: <56D04AC6-6076-465D-B589-6DEF54A82375 [at] aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

It's too bad because they are great cars otherwise. I would like one if it weren't for that little problem.

John

Sent from my ATT Bell Rotary Dial Phone

> On Mar 22, 2016, at 5:23 PM, clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com wrote:
>
> Trust me I was in the market for  a
> 550/575
> When I was told this I stopped looking
>
> Clyde Romero
>
> If you have no enemies
> You have no character !
>
> In Victory you deserve Champagne
> In Defeat You Need It!
>
> If you obey all the rules
> You miss all the fun !
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Dick Petrick <rtpetrick [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Clyde?
>> I can understand that the OEM Air Bag ECU may not available, but are you saying that there is no fix possible?
>> How is it that the entire automobile is totaled?
>> That doesn?t sound right to me, but I do believe that your knowledge of things Ferrari is accurate.
>> I?ve got a 2005  575M F1??. so naturally, you raise concerns.
>> On 3/22/16 7:57 AM, clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> > Oh here is one for the list
>> > If your own a 550/575 and blow the air bag The car is totaled Because
>> > there are NO AIR BAG ECU's available anywhere !
>> >
>> >
>> > In victory you deserve Champagne
>> > In defeat you need it!
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Dick Petrick
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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>>
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:12:56 -0500
From: "Brian E. Buxton" <BrianBuxton [at] BuxtonMotorsports.com>
To: Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] General Ferrari/exotic market cycle
Message-ID: <56F1D178.4050405 [at] BuxtonMotorsports.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Say hello to Big Brother.  Here is my question - since most all
manufacturers recommend that airbags are changed every 10 years, and
NOBODY does that, how does anyone even know their airbag functions on
cars older than 2006?


And if you keep your factory steering wheel with no airbag in it, who is
going to know?


On 3/22/16 3:59 PM, Erik Nielsen wrote:
> If you want to play design engineer at home, it makes a lot of sense
> to start with a chassis made prior to 1967.



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