| Thank you my friend,
I hope you are right! I am so busy now only have a one day a month with the Ferrari’s…..
Robert W. Garven Jr.
"The Ferrari is a dream - people dream of owning this special vehicle and for most people it will remain a dream apart from for those lucky few." Enzo Ferrari
Euro GT4 reverse lights are powered through the reverse gear switch
powered by headlight/parking light cluster - right fuse block fuse #6
bottom wire which is red with black tracer
If your parking lights ARE off yet your reverse comes on, chances are the
red/black wire has gotten moved from the fuse where it belongs. $100
says it got moved to #7 fuse (bottom) which is always at +12v.
paul
Sent: Monday, November 07, 2016 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] PCB Fuse Blocks
Peter,
If you figure out where the rear back up lights are hooked let me know my
euro gt4 lights come on with the engine off and
I cant use my gear lock! The US car the back up light must be hooked
to some other fuse area as they are off when the engine shuts down!
Rob
Robert W. Garven
Jr.
"The Ferrari is a dream
- people dream of owning this special vehicle and for most people it will remain
a dream apart from for those lucky few." Enzo
Ferrari
Some circuits I find that the wire size may have been too small. At least
with my GT4, the radiator fan circuits, plus the circuit for horns/cigarette
lighter/clock/etc are all tapped off from the one supply... The wiring diagram
specs it as 4mm wire (looks to me like 10 AWG). I'm going to run a separate
supply to the horns/clock/lighter/etc. circuit and keep the rad fans on the
original supply. Not that the clock is a huge power draw, nor am constantly
blaring the horn and/or a chain smoker, but would rather be safe than
sorry.
Peter
The sad part is what Ferrari uses from the factory as OEM wires
In victory you deserve Champagne
In defeat you need it!
Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
If you follow all the rules
You miss all the fun!
If you have no enemies, you have no character !
Clyde Romero
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Jokes aside, if any relays are installed, make sure they're clearly
labelled and properly run. Use the appropriate size gauge wire (refer to this
chart for length/gauge: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html
). As I've mentioned before, I've seen too many butcher jobs done and too many
rat's nests!
|
Amps
and Wire Gauge - 12V Circuit Maximum current - amps - through a 12V
circuit - related to size (AWG) and length of
wire | Peter
In a word - a cLyDe word - "shitbox". Laughing so hard I peed
myself a little at my own stupid joke.
Sent from my iPhone
Listen guys here is the long and the short of it
Even if you buy a new fuse box it doesn't fix the problem
The problem is the instantaneous 25 amp draw thru the fuse box
pins
That connect the cooling fans and the a/c fans
The pins can't handle it
That's why you install the relay to get the load away from the
fuse box
So the best course of action is to get the relays installed before you
have an issue
Wishing all best of luck
But please get it done
It's just a matter of time before you have a SPACE SHUTTLE Challenger
event!
In victory you deserve Champagne
In defeat you need it!
Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
If you follow all the rules
You miss all the fun!
If you have no enemies, you have no character !
Clyde Romero
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail ( including attachments
) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C.,
Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which
it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material.
Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding
or distribution is prohibited.
This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous
email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is
priviledged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person
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PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please
immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyde.romerof4 [at] gmail.com or
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attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.
Haven’t been closely following this thread but these old photos of a
hand wired attempted fix/abomination from 5-7 years back, caught my eye.
You can’t be serious that it went commercial. I would suggest if you
want a proper fix to the printed circuit board fuse/relay panel problem,
that is the only fix which I would approve is Dave Helms’. Scuderia
Ram pante
http://scuderiarampante.com/sri-fuse-boxes/ p
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 512 radiators
Hey cLyDe,
Did you take a look at the link I included in my message to you? That
supplier did list all of the cars it's used on. 328/Mondial, 348/Mondial,
400/412, F40, TR/512TR. This link shows two views, front and back and the
back view is telling:
|
|
Ferrari
328 GTB / GTS and GTB Turbo Ferrari Mondial 8, QV, 3.2 and T Ferrari
400 and 412 Ferrari F40 Ferrari Testarossa, TR and
512TR |
Notice how most of the tracers are simply soldered wires. Not a whole
lot to carry the currents mentioned. Would be better to eliminate the
connections through the board and go directly to the harness
connector.
In addition to installing updated fuse boxes, I am planning to re-do
the connectors as well. Inside the car, at the fuse box (located in the
glove box in a 308 GT4), the connectors aren't too bad looking, but I
don't trust them. I'll strip back to nice shiny copper (if I have enough
length of wire to do so) and crimp on new blade connectors. A more
critical area is at the devices - rad fan harnesses, headlight harnesses,
other light harnesses. They show signs of corrosion. Not just simply at
the connections, where male and female connect, but the crimps to the wire
itself. Green dust = bad. The corrosion bumps up resistance and that
resistance bumps up current.
I see this all the time on the commercial vehicles I work on. Being
exposed to the elements, if the connection isn't treated with some kind-of
protection, the corrosion just builds and builds. Terrible when people run
ring-terminal grounds onto bare aluminum... "Get'r done and outta the
shop!" Ferrari did what it did to save time and money. These boards locate
everything in one place and it's quick to assemble on the line. They could
care less about longevity. As long as it lasts past the warranty, keep
cranking them out.
Another issue is contact pressure of the connectors. More prominent
with the harnesses using small-gauge wire, like the AMP connectors going
to ECUs/etc. This is the case with those shitty fuse boxes used in the
older 308s, the buss-bar rivets linking rows of fuses lose pressure. Mine
were terribly loose and no wonder why my rad fan circuits were melting
too. Immediate temperature drop when I soldered them to the buss bars (and
the fuse prongs to the rivets). Another thing I don't trust.
Ahhh, old cars... <OutlookEmoji-??.png> At least repairs and mods
are reasonable. All of these new cars scare the shit out of me and I won't
touch them when they're older. NLA ECUs, 9 million wires criss-crossing
through the car, etc. Forget it.
Peter
Here is the key in my opinion
Get a head of it now
Do not wait
These cars are all 20 plus years old and I have 103k on my
car
And had not had a problem up until recently
As many services as I have performed on my car if I had known
about this earlier I would
Have done the mod years ago
But I drive my car and everything worked so why mess with success
right ?
The fuse box on the TR is robust
It's the multi pin connection which connects to the fuse box which
trips the fans and the a/c fans that are the issue
Those wires are like the lead wired on a slot car!
So thin !
And they have to handle 25 amps at start up
This is Apollo 11 all over again
I mean really for a car that cost $250k to have an electronic set up
like this insane
A 1993 anything that had a fan had a better set up than this
Will have a detailed write up on what color wires to use etc in a
later post
In victory you deserve Champagne
In defeat you need it!
Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
If you follow all the rules
You miss all the fun!
If you have no enemies, you have no character !
Clyde Romero
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail ( including
attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18
U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or
entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or
privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure,
dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is
prohibited.
This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous
email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that
is priviledged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person
responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the
information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY
PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please
immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyde.romerof4 [at] gmail.com
or by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original
transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to
disk.
This is well-documented on Ferrarichat and other forums. The TR
series, 328s/Mondials and other later cars used printed circuit boards
to house fuse and relays in one neat location... As you and many others
found, over time, it's just not substantial enough to handle these heavy
loads.
In my quest to update my fuse boxes in the 308 (avoiding Birdman's
glass-tube style, as I don't really like the appearance and lack of
plastic covers), I came across a modular system offered from Littelfuse
which I think could be developed to replace the printed circuit
boards.
You can get OEM boards. I'm not sure if they're NOS or repro, but
here's an example from Italian supplier, Auto Ricambi D'Epoca:
The Littelfuse system I mentioned is kind-of like a set of Lego
blocks; you pick the fuse and relay blocks and then interlock them into
whatever assembly you want. It is meant for commercial vehicle and other
custom vehicle applications, but I don't see why it couldn't be used to
replace original fuse boxes.
Keep in mind, I DON'T OWN A TR YET! I have no idea if there is enough
clearance to allow such an assembly to be installed in the stock
location (in the front storage area, behind the spare tire I
believe?...). Nor, am I aware if someone does offer an upgrade kit, or
rebuilds original boards. Download the Littelfuse catalog here (PDF
file):
I came up with something trick for my 308 GT4. I have yet to install
it permanently but initial testing seems to work well (using modern, ATC
style fuses). Not the above-mentioned POWR-BLOK modules, but another
type (from Hella).
When it comes down to it, I'm sure fresh electrical connectors and
corrosion-preventative compound/grease will help any original set-up (to
a certain extent).
I'm glad to hear cLyDe your rads are in and everything is in tip-top
shape.
Peter
Ok
its done
But
here is the rest of the story
It
wasn’t the fans
When
I installed new fans one did not work
It
was the fuse box that had burned a wire to the fan and caused that
fan to not work, even when I checked the continuity of the circuit
If
you own a TR or a 512 TR you need to do the relay in line set up on your
fans and air-conditioner at the fuse box
The
condenser fans are a 25 amp draw as well which caused the same issue
The
pin connector into the fuse box for the a/c was severely burned as
well
I
had severe heat damage where the pins inserted to the fuse box and
luckily got out alive
It
didn’t not destroy the fuse box which in now longer available
The
fans are 25 AMP draw at start up and put an enormous load on that fuse
box with regards to heat.
The
fuse box pins cannot take the heat
You
need to install relays in line
Now
the new radiators are great
They
are aluminum and lighter and cool down substantiality faster than the
stock units
Fans
stay on 30 sec cool down the car and turn off
Something
that never happened in the past
In
any case those of you who have a TR or a 512 need to do the relay
installation or you will eventually have a major problem in your fuse
box
I
was lucky
If
any of you have questions email me
I
imagine this is the same issues that a 355 or 348 or any Ferrari that
utilizes fans to cool radiators since the symptoms are the same with
regards to the fuse box
I
have pictures for those who want them to show them of the burnt pins
from the excessive draw that the fans and A/C draw
Bottom
line is that this will happen to you, if it hasn’t happened to you
already and you just don’t know it
If
one of your fans dies don’t replace the fan
Check
the pins into the fuse box and I can guarantee you it will be a pin
failure
Clyde
with the new radiators and relays
CLYDE
In victory
you deserve Champagne
In defeat
you need it!
![http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d50199eadaa3846040c76511e/images/Screen_shot_2013_05_29_at_9.18.02_AM.png]() <image001.gif>
<image002.jpg>
Scars are
tattoos with better stories!
Clyde
Romero
678
6419932
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