Ferrari Mailing List: Re: How much is too much?

[Martin Stark (mstark]

I’ve owned a basically trouble free 2007 CL550 for the last four years. Only dumb problem was a failed side marker LED that required invasive surgery to replace. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 9, 2018, at 10:37 PM, Brian E. Buxton <BrianBuxton [at] BuxtonMotorsports.com> wrote:

Had a couple of recalls on the newer cars but I never had anything on any of them except routine maintenance ... my dad did have a 1999 ML320 that was mechanically excellent as far as the drivetrain but had a crap interior with a lot of plastic and required major a/c work once a year.  A buddy did have the hydraulic suspension system go out on a 2003 SL55.  I also have a couple of E320 diesel sedans in a sedan service I own that have had glow plug issues, alternator, water pump etc. fail. But nothing major with the engines or trans.

-- 
Brian E. Buxton 

Auto Acquisitions and Consulting  |  5411 S.R. 261, Unit 903  |  Newburgh, IN 47629
(812) 760-5513 mobile  |  (812) 476-2284 fax

www.BuxtonMotorsports.com
www.BuxtonMotorsports.net


Brian Buxton Enterprises, Inc.
Nationwide Enclosed Auto Transportation


Select Chauffeured Transportation, LLC
www.SelectEVV.com


Founder & Past President
So. IN Region Porsche Club of America

On 9/9/18 7:50 PM, Lashdeep Singh wrote:

Brian, you need to buy lottery tickets!

You never had one check engine light or non-scheduled repair?

On Sep 10, 2018, at 00:43, Brian E. Buxton <BrianBuxton [at] BuxtonMotorsports.com> wrote:

It varied I sold the C36 with 90K, the 2009 C63 sedan I bought new and sold with 45K (almost all of my cars I don't sell because I advertise them but clients see them and want to buy them), CL55 coupe had 45K, E55 sedan I can't remember, 2009 E63 sedan I sold with 65K, 2006 SL55 with performance package had 45K and the G55 had 58K I believe.  I have had a few other non-AMG Mercedes as well as have members of my family and they have all been bulletproof.  Family has had various E320, ML350 and GLK350, S500 etc.  I bought a new CLS550 in 2012 and put 55K on it with never any sort of issue at all. 

-- 
Brian E. Buxton 

Auto Acquisitions and Consulting  |  5411 S.R. 261, Unit 903  |  Newburgh, IN 47629
(812) 760-5513 mobile  |  (812) 476-2284 fax

www.BuxtonMotorsports.com
www.BuxtonMotorsports.net


Brian Buxton Enterprises, Inc.
Nationwide Enclosed Auto Transportation


Select Chauffeured Transportation, LLC
www.SelectEVV.com


Founder & Past President
So. IN Region Porsche Club of America

On 9/8/18 8:47 PM, Lashdeep Singh wrote:

Brian, how many miles do you put on each of these cars?

Dozens of my friends (and myself) just stopped buying Benz products about 8 years ago.

The motors are scary. Electrics and hydraulics are horrible, overly complicated and seriously under engineered. 

I maintain my Dad’s W140 which is supposed to be one of the last well made MBs.

It is a two owner car with lots of records and 135k on it.

A lot of the issues with the car have nothing to do with maintenance or care.

Cheap plastic, overly complicated mechanisms for systems that don’t matter, and an almost non-existent attention to fasteners and glue. 

I can’t believe someone paid over $25k for this new.

I do understand why they are $2k now though...

On Sep 9, 2018, at 00:14, Brian E. Buxton <BrianBuxton [at] BuxtonMotorsports.com> wrote:

This is one thing I have not heard or experienced ... and I have owned 6-7 AMG cars (C36 sedan, C63 sedan, CL55 coupe, E55 sedan, E63 sedan, SL55 with performance package and G55).  Motors and trans are bulletproof and way overbuilt.  Other issues (hydraulic convertible top mechanism, a/c systems, steering racks etc) are what make people nervous.  But this can also happen with any car.  Client of mine just spent $8,000 to fix the convertible top mechanism on his early 2000's Jaguar XKR and the car is probably with about $8,000.  But can you sell it with hydraulic fluid leaking onto the center console and a top that doesn't go down?

-- 
Brian E. Buxton 

Auto Acquisitions and Consulting  |  5411 S.R. 261, Unit 903  |  Newburgh, IN 47629
(812) 760-5513 mobile  |  (812) 476-2284 fax

www.BuxtonMotorsports.com
www.BuxtonMotorsports.net


Brian Buxton Enterprises, Inc.
Nationwide Enclosed Auto Transportation


Select Chauffeured Transportation, LLC
www.SelectEVV.com


Founder & Past President
So. IN Region Porsche Club of America

On 9/8/18 12:10 PM, Lashdeep Singh via Ferrari wrote:

Nobody wants a used AMG because they are poorly engineered and constructed.

Why spend $15k on a car that had an MSRP of $100k only 7 yrs before when it costs $1000/month to maintain?

I buy them as cheap beaters and live with the endless problems.

A lot of the newer exotic car owners are driving them everywhere. They just don’t keep them very long it because technology is changing much faster than it did in the old days.

LSJ

On Sep 8, 2018, at 12:03, Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

The problem is that the majority of people who bought the cars,Ferrari Porsche and the like 

Bought them as show pieces not to drive them.

Bragging rights for the street 

It used to be watches, now it’s this.

I have over 107k on my 93 512 TR and people when they see me in it say

You drive that thing?

I mean what did you buy it for?

I am planning on a 2k trip to PHL this month to visit a friend in the car 

It’s like the guy who has a super model girlfriend, and she tells her friends, he doesn’t even touch me!

Go figure 

As a parting shot

The FML drives the BS meter on the pricing and collectibles along with Jay Leno.

Look for a story shortly from me on lister, whom I help sell his pristine 308 with Daytona interior and R-134 conversion at a price no where near what they as so call asking for in the yellow sh*t rag FML.

This car was expertly maintained and absolutely beautiful in ever sense of the word.

Got to to go guys

     RF4-4EVR

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

Clyde Romero    

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On Sep 8, 2018, at 2:29 AM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

I suppose there is no easy or simple answer to how much of a hit an owner should take, should their vehicle have really high mileage. Understanding, of course, that you say, regardless of condition – even if an owner has been fastidious in it’s care, like treating the leather and applying multiple coats of wax to the paint, etc – miles are miles. It probably comes down to whether or not they’re in it for resale value, or just have the car because they like/love it and couldn’t care less what it’s worth and how much mileage it has when it comes time to sell.

 

Yet, I was intrigued at how a number of F’Listers posted six figure mileages.

 

There was that story a while ago of that gentleman who owned a 308 GT4 with 200K+ miles on the odometer appearing in Forza magazine (I believe the famous author and collector Jess Pouret also owned a 308 GT4 that had 200K+ KM on it’s ododmeter). Both cars looked to be in great condition and that is a reflection of those owners who carefully took care of the cars. Yes, exceptions, considering far too many were driven to the ground by those who were in it for the flash of the badge on the nose.

 

Funny you mention rarity, because a few years ago when Ford GTs became THE car to collect, every one that came to auction, or was posted for sale privately, all seemed to have no more than 500 miles on the odometer. Some even had only delivery mileage! The rare ones are the few guys who actually drove them! A former Ferrari owner here in Vancouver bought one when they came out and just loves the thing. Last I heard, the car had five figures on the odometer. It still looks like new.

 

Peter

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

 

---

From: Brian E. Buxton <BrianBuxton [at] BuxtonMotorsports.com>
Sent: Friday, September 7, 2018 10:30:33 PM
To: Peter Rychel
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] How much is too much?

 

From my experience the lower the mileage the higher the value ... even on cars that aren't really collectible.  Low mileage becomes more and more rare each passing week, month or year.  And unless someone really abuses a vehicle, lower mileage cars will always be nicer, cleaner, and more original inside and out.  Low mileage almost always equates to better condition, more originality and "correct."  There is nothing wrong with driving and enjoying a vehicle, but no matter how meticulous an owner is there is no way that a 100,000 mile vehicle will be as nice (paint, carpet, interior etc.) or original (engine compartment stickers, and even the new car / leather smell) as a 1,000 mile car. 

It is true that age will require hoses, belts, tires, etc. to be changed, as does heavy use - so you are at a wash there.  And oil leaks can occur on even brand new cars - I've seen new Range Rovers leaking power steering fluid on the showroom floor.  What you really pay for in exceptionally low mileage vehicles is (original) condition and rarity.

And mileage does affect price and salability - as an example, AMG Mercedes become increasingly difficult to sell after they rack up 60,000 - 70,000 miles, as do exotics.  One reason is that so many buyers think they don't "need" the extra power so they choose a less expensive SL500 over an SL63.  Or they worry about maintenance costs, so they choose an S550 over an S65.  Higher mileage also causes buyers to avoid certain cars for two different reasons - one is the people who want the rarity and performance of a Ferrari can usually afford to buy something newer or with very low miles, so they avoid higher mileage cars.  The other group wants the look and the "ego boost" of an exotic, and higher mileage examples are in their price range, but many times they can't afford the maintenance, insurance costs etc. associated with those cars.  Some become so low in value that they make more sense as parts cars than drivers - who would buy a $3,000 Porsche 944 and then pay $3,000 every 5 - 6 years for timing belt services?  And that doesn't include tires, a clutch, a/c repairs, power steering leaks, window repairs, etc. that will come along with a car from the 1980's.

-- 
Brian E. Buxton 

On 8/26/18 12:08 AM, Peter Rychel wrote:

As was discussed on this list last weekend, many Listers posted how much mileage they have on their cars, prompted by Matt Boyd’s recent insurance appraisal. I was quite surprised at how many of you have cars into the six-figure mileage amounts. That’s impressive.

 

Reading this article though, gives me thought of how much is too much mileage in regards to value. How much penalty should an owner expect to get on the sale price of their car? And really, should it matter at all? It seems car values are based on condition, rather than simply on odometer totals (and if a car happens to have racked up 100K+ mi yet is in spectacular shape, does it deserve a lower sales price just because of the substantial mileage?).

 

It seems to be quite a shame that such amazing cars have been parked all of their life. Good thing none of them are rare and there are plenty of similar examples on the market with “normal” mileages on them:

 

www.classicdriver.com - why you should invest in low mileage classics

 

Peter

 

P.S. Here’s my odometer. I took it last weekend, but didn’t bother posting it as I passed the Friday contest deadline!:

 

<A2E304B8F9F64E0C856F0714914AE2AA.jpg>

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

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