Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Holly cow

[Brian Keegan (bks281]

South Florida has always had better cocaine.

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On Dec 10, 2018, at 4:35 PM, Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry Robert Cav is just a hard cover version of FML.

They just use better cocaine down there that’s all.

     RF4-4EVR

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

Clyde Romero    

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On Dec 10, 2018, at 1:54 PM, Robert W. Garven Jr. <rgarven [at] gmail.com> wrote:

The Cavallino guide is supposedly based on actual sales and they listed the 246 Dino that sold at Monterey a few years ago for 800k. When they do this they say one off auction sale or 100 point car etc under the comments heading . So when I bought my GT4 from where Brian K. worked they were listing GT4s at 30k, I contacted them and told them of 3 restored examples that sold at 150K plus. Nothing.... About the same time I was corresponding with well known fcar dealer M Sheehan who told me he sold a well documented and super clean GT4 for 100k! Contacted them again and I think they moved the price up to 35k. I offered to send them my cancelled check and once again no interest. So there is inaccuracies at both ends. 

I think with my model car there was a small conspiracy among a few people to keep the price low because for some reason or another they still don’t like the GT4 which really doesn’t make sense but there’s no other reason I could figure for them to have such an inaccurate figures when faced with actual evidence. And I don’t care what anyone says this is still a better car than most Ferraris made before or after, for a variety of reasons I’ve probably listed before on many occasions. It was also a car that Enzo Ferrari had significant personal involvement with. And then there is Marcelo Gandini......

I recently went through a rough patch and thought I wasn’t going to make it and thought about selling both cars but decided I’d rather die with two Ferraris than live without any. I’m feeling a bit better now will stand by my decision. I could care less what the value is, to me being fortunate enough to own two of these fantastic vehicles is one of the most satisfying reasons for living. Plus I have too consecutive build numbers 409 and 410!

I subscribed to the market letter only because I was looking for a car and they have lots of great ads. if I win the lottery I will re-subscribe!!😎

That is my story and I’m sticking to it!!

Rob

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On Dec 10, 2018, at 9:18 AM, Charles Perry <charles [at] carolinasound.com> wrote:

Brian -

 

In that vein, what is your experience with the three general “public” price guides? We’ve been shopping for pedestrian-grade cars to replace my wife’s Volvo, and I find that there are huge discrepancies between Edmunds (usually lowest), NADA and KBB, even if you do your best to describe them identically to the three sites.

 

We’ve found dealers won’t come close to selling for what Edmund’s thinks is fair dealer price. NADA and KBB are usually, but not always, closer to each other but way higher than Edmund’s.

 

I don’t know what algorithms / true sales / auction results influence each, but I would expect them to be more in consensus than they generally are.

 

-- charles

 

From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+charles=carolinasound.com [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Brian E. Buxton
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2018 12:10 PM
To: Charles Perry
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Holly cow

 

Price guides are just that - guides.  They don't set the market, they report the market.  Some are better than others and are more accurate depending on the subject.  So looking up a Toyota Camry value on Kelley Blue Book will lend better (more accurate) results than looking at KBB for a Ferrari Enzo value.  While looking at Sport Car Market or FML will give you a much better idea on the Enzo market.  But either way if KBB say an Enzo is worth $5M they won't write you a check for that amount, and if they report an Enzo is worth $100,000 it doesn't mean you can find one at that price.  And KBB can't deliver one to you for that price.

Referencing FML, if an Enzo is advertised for $2M there with no takers and then is shipped to Barret-Jackson where it sells for $800,000 then it doesn't mean FML is trash, nor does it mean that anyone referencing that classified ad source is uneducated or out of touch with the market or "just a Porsche expert."  It simply means the owner running the ad had unrealistic expectations of the value.  And the sale at BJ, plus some research into other Enzo sales, will show if the $800K is the current market value or if it was an anomaly based on celeb ownership, exceptional condition, low mileage or rarity in colors or options. 

Price guides aren't bad - they just have to be taken with a grain of salt and other research to form an intelligent, informed conclusion.

-- 

Brian E. Buxton 

Auto Acquisitions and Consulting  |  5411 S.R. 261, Unit 903  |  Newburgh, IN 47629

(812) 760-5513 mobile  |  (812) 476-2284 fax

www.BuxtonMotorsports.com

www.BuxtonMotorsports.net

Brian Buxton Enterprises, Inc.

Nationwide Enclosed Auto Transportation

Select Chauffeured Transportation, LLC

www.SelectEVV.com

Founder & Past President

So. IN Region Porsche Club of America

On 12/8/18 3:32 PM, Alexander Ishii wrote:

As no one else has risen to their defense... :)

I will say that while I give no weight to actual prices listed in FML, their

Asking Price Index (and note that they are completely upfront that these are

asking prices) is a pretty fair indicator on the trends of prices.

I can't say anything about post-70s numbers (which is funny, since my only

F-car is the 308), but I always track FML when I start to muse about getting

an old V12, and the Asking Price Index seems to come pretty close to showing

when the true "trough" points happen.  And yes, I am talking about private

sales as well as auctions and dealers; when I have been "shopping", I have

truly been shopping, and thus making offers, and seeing what offers I lost

cars to...

Cathy (the lady who runs FML) is also a very gracious, and is happy to help

you research the history of individual cars.

In case the above does not make it clear, I think FML is a useful bunch of

folks, and I like them.

Any mind you, while "things are worth what people are willing to pay," in a

non-transparent market like vintage Ferrari's "what people are willing to

pay" can vary greatly depending on timing, circumstance, and available

information.

    Cheers,

    Alex

    Nero Mettalic QV

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