| Re: BS pricing of Ferrari and other so called exotics | <– Date –> <– Thread –> |
From: Jeff Kennedy (jkennedy.design gmail.com)
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| Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2020 07:55:14 -0800 (PST) | |
Headed to the Tanker for a top offNoses coldMask down !Bottom lineI read the WSJ everydayWeekly there is a section called mansionWhere they show case homes that have sold in the millions, the Hampton's, MIami, you name itActual prices that can be verified through reputable real estate companiesHousing traditionally cost more than carsEven the rare carsSo how come you can see the actual selling price of homes in the millionsYet you can’t get actual selling pricing of Ferrari sales?What’s the catch here?Other than the falsehoods of the dealers and publications such as FML and CAV hyping the prices needlesslyAre you getting it now ?Got the offloadHeaded to the pattern for some bouncesRF4-4EVR
Scars are Tattoos with better stories !If you have no enemies, you have no character !Clyde RomeroConfidentiality Notice: This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com or by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.On Nov 12, 2020, at 10:10 AM, Jeff Kennedy <jkennedy.design [at] gmail.com> wrote:Clyde,Some fact checking is in order.Why would FML if they were a true yardstick of Ferrari pricing let anyone offer a 1978 308 car for over $300k?It’s a fiberglass shitbox that catches fire ! Ask around, that’s why there aren’t many left!
- No such thing as a 1978 fiberglass/Vetroresina car.
- The Vetroresinas were very low production - 808 is a quoted worldwide number.
- The Vetroresina cars are a claimed 150 kg lighter than the subsequent steel GTBs.
- Some have been fully restored by competent shops. I have seen one that was done by Motion Products so one would expect that came with a very a substantial bill.
- If the subject car is a European model it would have a dry sump motor - never a North America build feature.
On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 6:43 AM Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:_________________________________________________________________In MIL!Dealer listings are based on FML asking pricesIt’s like a breeder reactorBullshit inBullshit outIt feeds on it selfFML wants nothing to do with BaT or eBay pricingThey FML consider themselves the sole source for Ferrari pricing in the world !They say this in their advertisingIt took a while but the internet has drastically changed how Ferrari cars are bought and soldPictures right awayServices recordsTalk to the previous ownersNone of that happened with FMLNone of this occurred before the internet and cars were being sold at rip off pricesWhich kept hundreds out of the marketWhy would FML if they were a true yardstick of Ferrari pricing let anyone offer a 1978 308 car for over $300k?It’s a fiberglass shitbox that catches fire ! Ask around, that’s why there aren’t many left!It’s just so he can take his money every year in the adIt’s equivalent to offering a homeless shelter as a mansion!You see that car on any other website, hmm interesting isn’t it.Same goes for the ridiculous priced Pista or any of the other multi million dollar oldey but goody Ferrari cars in the deceptive publication called FML.CAV they think there stuff doesn’t stink and they have a following like some banana republic dictator
I subscribed to CAV back in the day when there were few publications on FerrariWhen I saw they were nothing more than fluff and could not tell the difference between a INDY car and a F-1 car I punched.There are still those out there who fall into the trap, they are far and few between at least I hope soWith regards to the dealer in MONTRÉAL he was a different egg. He actually sold cars but did want the owners to drive them!I went to the GP up there and drove the 512 TR and met some of the local club members and that is what they said.Canadians had the most 348’s I have ever seen!Idle decent!RF4-4EVR
Scars are Tattoos with better stories !If you have no enemies, you have no character !Clyde RomeroConfidentiality Notice: This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com or by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.On Nov 12, 2020, at 12:13 AM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:_________________________________________________________________The friend Rob is referring to was the dealer in Montreal, Mr. Luigi Della Grotta, who held the franchise from the mid-‘60s to 2000. Mr. Luigi passed away in 2012. If it wasn’t for his patience and encouragement, I never would’ve pursued a passion towards these cars and, eventually get one (especially at an early age).
There’s no doubt of the significance of Gerald’s contribution to the Ferrari world, through his meticulous research into the histories of these cars. If it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t have been able to start the research into my own car’s history. I subscribed shortly after submitting my S/N info to him, which he gave me all of the times my car was listed for sale in his publication back in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s (when the car was located in North Carolina).
Again, the point I would like clarification on is, I can’t remember exactly how it is compiled, but how does FML come up with the prices that they state? I know they take various results from public auctions and also dealer listings, but where else? Does it now include sources like BaT and Ebay? These two latter examples could significantly alter valuations.
I need another car like a hole in my head, but I have been thinking about a second Ferrari (328) and the price range I’ve been seeing between examples is staggering.
Peter
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Robert Garven
Sent: November 11, 2020 12:19 PM
To: PeterGT4
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: [Ferrari] Support of Gerald Roush/ Even if you hate FML pricing
Friends,
I agree here with Jeff, Gerald was a significant figure in the Ferrari community and was always kind to me.
Whether you agree with the prices he posted, when I was looking for a vintage V12, that was the first
magazine I subscribed to, looking to find sellers. All the magazine trade in politics concerning prices, whether it
is asking, selling or value. I got in a small scuffle with the guys at Cavallino when they were saying the highest
price of a GT4 was 25K, after 3 just sold for 150K+. To me it is not wether you agree with the numbers, but
rather if they are accurate or not. That is what is really going on, but as we have seen even on BAT some
cars sell for prices that are insane to others!
Gerald was based in the Atlanta area and curious if Clyde you ever got to met him? All the guys at FAF gave
me the utmost support in being a young guy that wanted a Ferrari someday and I think they are one of just
a few that were like this, including Peter’s friend in Montreal. I agree with 99.9% of anything Clyde says but
think he may be being a bit harsh. Like Jeff said every issue had an in depth look at different models, including the
GT4 and what to look for for prospective buyers. And love it or hate it is is part of the trinity of Ferrari mags…
Rob
<ferrari heart.jpg>
On Nov 11, 2020, at 7:47 AM, Jeff Kennedy <jkennedy.design [at] gmail.com> wrote:
FML has a very important history. Gerald Roush was a trained historian and approached tracking the early Ferraris seriously (as opposed to many others back then that told/repeated rampant falsehoods). As part of that Gerald kept files on every Ferrari serial number he could. That is why serial numbers are required whenever there is an ad in FML.
FML was created when Gerald was still working at FAF in Atlanta at a time when there might be ads in R&T, Autoweek, Sunday NYT and Sunday LA Times. FML provided a way to find a large portion of the assorted Ferraris for sale in a single place. Gerald also reviewed the submissions to avoid a seller making spurious claims about provenance. Plus, Gerald wrote a cover article on some aspect of Ferrari-ness. These were in the days prior to Cavallino and Forza.
Some here take pleasure in deriding how FML uses asking prices for their valuation guides. Stop and think about it. To what degree would you be confident that either a buyer or seller is (a) going to divulge a transaction price and (b) if they do, will it be fully accurate. For a very small operation like FML putting together a publication every 2 weeks, how much sense would it make for them to chase across the US and the rest of the world talking to pricing sources that might or might not have their own agendas. Maybe it is more relevant to using the % +/- section of the guide to gauge seller sentiment.
FML does regularly give auction results if one wishes to see some actual transaction prices.
On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 9:05 PM Lashdeep Singh via Ferrari <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> wrote:
I also never understood or paid much attention to FML.
And charting asking prices was more than a little odd.
If it wasn’t for Clyde, I would never be reminded that it still existed!
On Nov 10, 2020, at 11:21, Douglas Anderson <dnt [at] dock.net> wrote:
Correct price?
Willing seller – willing buyer
From: Ferrari <ferrari-bounces+dnt=dock.net [at] ferrarilist.com> On Behalf Of Peter Rychel
Sent: Monday, November 9, 2020 8:37 PM
To: DOUG <dnt [at] dock.net>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ok so the insanity continues....
It’s been years since I last read/subscribed to FML.
I knew they referenced a select number of typical sources to base their asking price lists, but has it been updated to include sites like BaT and eBay?
ASKING and SELLING are two completely different things. A person can ask all they want, it only takes one (or more) willing to buy it at that price, if they think it’s worth it.
At least with BaT, you can call up a particular model and see the range in prices. I shake my head when I see certain cars that fetch phenomenal amounts and others that I feel should get a lot, don’t.
Peter
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: Clarence Romero Jr.
Sent: November 9, 2020 4:40 AM
To: PeterGT4
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: [Ferrari] Ok so the insanity continues....
I went to the Italian Car show in Atlanta this Saturday
And there were free copies of the Yellow Sh$t rag Ferrari Market Newsletter
I opened one up and read it
488 PISTA SPYDER going for are you ready $695k
And get this
There’s is fiberglass 308 you can get for only $315k
The 550 crowd has finally gotten realistic with there ASKING PRICE and
Clyde PRICING has hit the 575 market so now is the time guys
On another note the FML is truly dead!
bring a trailer has reset the pricing on Ferrari’s with realistic numbers not
ASKING PRICES that don’t reflect the market whatsoever
The same goes for CAV
If you believe those numbers
You also believe the Jets can win the Super Bowl !
There’s some guy in Nebraska that’s owns a superamerica and he wants $485k
He has a spare top with the car too!
What’s that tell you?
I feel for the 355 crowd, especially the ones who paid 6 figures for the spyders
Those cars are like BMW 7 series in pricing !
Oh yea one more thing
There was a ROMA at the show, it was being held at Ferrari of Atlanta and they were giving demo rides in the car.
The front spoiler on that car is very low, almost as low as the one on my 512 TR
But my spoiler can be removed and fixed
Not this one, and get this the sensor for the distance measurement while driving is exposed on the right front, it’s the size of a small box about the size of your cell phone.
Nothing covering it! It’s out there to be hit by anything in the road, unbelievable
Denise has a 450SL with that same magic system and MB puts it behind very hard fiberglass and you can’t even see it from the outside.
WTF was Ferrari thinking.
It has to be an after thought, like holly shit, MB has this system let’s put in our latest car,
F@ck where do we mount the sensor?
Just put it there Luigi, no one will say a thing, were Ferrari, remember !
Brian I know your read the post.
Pull up the the replacement cost on the front spoiler and electrical box when you get a chance and post it
See if you can post a picture of the front of the car as well
Overall it was a good show, the weather cooperated
RF4-4EVR
Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
If you have no enemies, you have no character !
Clyde Romero
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.
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-
BS pricing of Ferrari and other so called exotics Clarence Romero Jr., November 12 2020
- Re: BS pricing of Ferrari and other so called exotics Jeff Kennedy, November 12 2020
-
Re: BS pricing of Ferrari and other so called exotics scott saidel, November 12 2020
- Re: BS pricing of Ferrari and other so called exotics Clarence Romero Jr., November 12 2020
- Re: BS pricing of Ferrari and other so called exotics Erik Nielsen, November 12 2020
- Re: BS pricing of Ferrari and other so called exotics Clarence Romero Jr., November 12 2020
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