Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Ferrari Digest, Vol 173, Issue 18

[Erik Nielsen (judge4re]

The biggest lesson I learned in racing a “spec” series was “if you’re not cheating, you’re not trying”.  And the pocketbooks where there to fund creative interpretation of the rules.

At the time, I was Paul Frame’s stand in for setting up the car (same height/weight).  

It’s not like you were going to get him out of his bus and I’m not sure she was even 17...

On Dec 9, 2020, at 7:23 AM, George <ygpz4re [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

Eric - I believe you are exactly correct.  I neglected to differentiate between having a VIN and being street legal.  I do know that certain wrecked 360CH cars were bought just for the VIN ("And that's all I have to say about that." ;-)  Oh the stories that could be told....)

And I chuckled loudly at your remark about the wooden crate!  Hahaha!!

Peter may be right - a certain digit may have been changed for the CH cars.  I'd have to ask my "in-house expert"....

gp

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From: Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 7:53 PM
To: George <ygpz4re [at] hotmail.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ferrari Digest, Vol 173, Issue 18

 

Going from memory (I know, dangerous for someone with grey in their beard), the 348 Challenge cars were all street cars that either had the kit installed in Italy or at the dealer.  Had they been thinking about it, they should have put it in a wooden box (ala Abarth) and watched the collector crowd go nuts for an empty box on eBay to go with their reproduction 275 GTB tool roll…

The first year of the 355 WAS US street legal in Challenge form.  The ones brought in the second year and later didn’t have the OBDII software on it and were sold on a bill of sale and not intended for street use.  I want to say they all had VINs, but this is Ferrari we’re talking about and I don’t have the patience to go ask the Dutch or Swiss anoraks for clarification.

I recall the 360’s having VINs, but didn’t turn a wrench on a 430 or later.  The 360 wasn’t street legal and came modified from the factory.  

I need to dig in the back of a closet for the old books on them, I think they’re around somewhere.  

On Dec 8, 2020, at 8:08 AM, George <ygpz4re [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

Doug,

The E-Type was first introduced to the world on March 15, 1961 at the Geneva Motor show.  While I can't comment on the fate of cars shown here in the states (though I seriously doubt that they were crushed), the first two cars shown in Geneva are alive and well and still road-legal.  The coupe still wears its GB reg number "9600HP", and the roadster "77RW".  They may not have had VINs in the sense that we think of them today (no cars until about 1980 did), but for sure they had chassis numbers and were tracked in factory records.

There's a very famous story of the roadster being pulled off the test track (it was a developmental car) and sent to the Geneva show at the last minute (demand was so great after having seen the coupe).  The late-great Jaguar test driver Norman Dewis drove that car all through the night - at very high speeds - to get it from Brown's Lane to Geneva in time for it to be on the Jaguar stand the very next morning - and it was also used as a demonstrator for media and potential customers.  (FWIW - Dewis is very famous in the Jaguar world - he once drove a highly modified XK-120 to over 170mph in Belgium.  I'm not really comfortable much over 70 in mine!) 

But to get back to Ferrari content - the Ferrari Challenge cars of the early days all began life as street cars, so they had VINs.  In fact, one of FoW's drivers from my first season on the team ('96) couldn't bear the beating the car took on the track, so he quit racing but continued to drive it around Bethesda, MD in full Challenge trim - roll cage, seats, fire extinguishing system, livery....  I'm pretty certain that even the 360CH cars had VINs, but for sure, the F430CH cars did not.  That plate on the top of the steering column was blank.  Tangentially, it wasn't until later in the F355CH run that they were factory-built as Challenge cars, and still had VINs.  (I believe - maybe Eric N knows better and can correct me....)

Finally - the E-Type is (I believe) the only automobile to have a permanent place in the Museum of Modern Art.  ;-)

gp

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From: "Douglas Anderson" <dnt [at] dock.net>

Charles notes ?That thought has crossed my mind too. Fun piece of memorabilia for us mortals who can?t buy old race cars.  ??

I wonder if they?re even VIN?d?

Flash back to May 1960.  Jaguar had just released the new E Type.  They had shipped the very first two cars to the U.S. for display at ??  Detroit Auto Show in March or so.  A coupe and an open car.  I saw them at the local dealership, Henry Perren at 4242 Crenshaw and Stocker in L.A., California.  Fell in love ? my friends dad worked there.  They also unveiled the Mini.  (That car can beat a VW - What??  Naaa ? that shoe box with go-kart wheels? Hah.) So Bob?s dad gives us a small tour ? AND these Jaguar?s are going back to the U.K. after here to be crushed.  CRUSHED??  Yep.  

Perhaps someone here can pick up the baton and clarify any mistakes.

Point is ? heavily modified and could pass as an E-legal (DOT pronunciation) street vehicle, and we (various government, chauffeured, no-it-all?s) don?t want them on the street.  Crush ?em.

End of story. Just a thought.

Doug

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