Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Please….

[Matt Boyd (ferrari308driver]

If you HAVE to move back to more relevant Ferrari (or at least Grand Prix) topics, I did watch the race yesterday, and was most impressed with the statistic that in all the many years of Grand Prix racing, this was only the 11th race where there were zero retirements.

Well done, I say!

-matt

85 euro 308

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 1:41 PM Robert W. Garven Jr. <rgarven [at] gmail.com> wrote:

I don’t seem to recall when the Ferrari List morphed into the Tesla list! Ha

I don’t think there’s a spoiler alert here what about the shortest Grand Prix in memory!

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 30, 2021, at 6:36 AM, Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

When I said all day long I was referring too I could do it anytime any place of my choosing 

I don’t have to be concerned with a battery charge limitation 

     RF4-4EVR

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

Clyde Romero    

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On Aug 30, 2021, at 9:13 AM, Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:



Actually, you did say all day long.  Scroll up.  And, as I said before, the batteries are only at 50% max draw at 160 MPH.  You do realize that it doesn't actually run on a single D cell, right?  There are hundreds of cells in the power pack and they have very low internal resistance.  The power is spread out and they have a pretty good heatsinking scheme.  Even after a quarter mile pull they are cool enough to immediately do another at the same performance level.  And that is max power.  

And things will get even better with the Roadster.  That car is projected to be $200k new.  The 575 was $230k 15 years ago.  In today's money, it is quite a bit more.  And, yes, on any road around Atlanta, it WILL chase you down.  

Truth is, it should be a moot point because people shouldn't be playing those games on public roads anyways.  When running away from anyone (Tesla, Challenger, whatever), are you running away from the car or are you running away from death?

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 8:57 AM Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

I did not say all day long

You did 

Bottom line 

The batteries in the car you speak of will not hold up at that power level for as long as you say and you know it 

The car will burn up from the heat 

Where as a gas powered car can sustain that power level as long as it has fuel  

It’s a quick car but not for long 

Clyde Romero

If you have no enemies

You have no character ! 

Scars are tattoos with better stories!

When you're out of F-4's you're out of fighters!

On Aug 30, 2021, at 8:38 AM, Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:



I agree that their styling leaves something to be desired.  The Roadster isn't bad.

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 8:20 AM Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:

And it still looks like a Ford Taurus.  

On Aug 30, 2021, at 7:11 AM, Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Like I said 30 minutes into a run anywhere 

That Duracell car isn’t going anywhere near 200 

Me I can do 180 plus all day long 

A push up bra doesn’t mean you have big tits!

     RF4-4EVR

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

Clyde Romero    

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On Aug 30, 2021, at 8:02 AM, Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:



What you say is true except that Model S Plaid is capable of 200MPH at full power.  As Erik said earlier, drag is proportional to v^2.  Power is f*v so power is proportional to v^3.  At 160, the power draw on the batteries is only half of their max current draw.  The batteries are relatively happy there with modest cooling.  They have done a lot to reduce internal resistance.  I am even more fun at cocktail parties.

Quarter mile pulls are tough for these cars because that requires max power the whole time.  And the S Plaid can do them back to back and get the same results.  After that, sure, the batteries will need to cool down.  But even gas cars shouldn't be doing back to back to back quarter mile pulls.  If you want to do that to your Ferrari, go for it.  I am sure it will survive.  But that doesn't mean it is good for the car.  Good for the ego, perhaps, but not the car.

I still stand by what I was told that the S Plaid can do 160 for at least 85 miles.  Energy consumption is proportional to v^2.  The regular Model S can go 225 miles at 100 MPH and it is running much closer to full power at 100 than the S Plaid is.  The math checks out. There aren't many roads where you should be doing 160 for 85 miles.

On Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 11:34 PM Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:

Here's another perspective.  Purely current draw and no aero factor, no cooling pump loss.

1020 HP is roughly 760600 watts.

1020 HP is roughly 2.5M BTU/hr.

At 375 volts (S-Plaid), the current draw at full power is roughly 2000 Amps.   That's a lot of heat when you yank it out of a battery.

I believe they have to operate on Note3 standards due to Class 9 fire hazard of lithium batteries (once they ignite, you watch them burn, bring smores) which limits how hot they can get before they have to scale back power to stay within acceptable heat standards (divided by 3) to prevent fire.

On Sunday, August 29, 2021, 06:43:06 PM PDT, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/07/15/tesla-range-plotted-relative-to-speed-temperature-graphs/

Data here craps out at 100 mph and it is all an empirical curve fit, however, drag is f(v^2).

Using the Tesla S, cd = 0.24, and frontal area is about 25.2 square feet.

@ 100 mph - drag = 687 N

@ 160 mph - drag = 1760 N

Or about 2.56x times more, close enough for a scratch pad.

So double checking, if range is linear with speed (which we know it will be less because of drag forces), checking the range vs speed chart, we will likely lose 50 miles of range for every 20 mph above 80 mph.  Call it ~ 200 miles at 100 mph, so at 160 we should be around 50 miles.  And at V=160 mph, we’ll be doing 50 miles in a bit less than 19 minutes.  

Ask Clyde, I’m not much fun at cocktail parties.  

On Aug 29, 2021, at 8:14 PM, Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Do you have data to back up that claim?  Because, based on what I have been told, it can go between 85 and 100 miles at 160MPH.  You have to realize that this thing has three of Tesla's high power motors and they are the most advanced motors of their kind.  It also has a large battery capacity using the most advanced rechargeable, high draw, high capacity batteries available.  The system has the ability to reach 200MPH so it wouldn't be full out at 160.  I haven't seen published data of such a run so it is all speculation and third party claims.  If you have a link to such a run, I would like to see it.

On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 7:46 PM Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

That car can’t do 160 for 5 mins 

     RF4-4EVR

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

Clyde Romero    

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This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com or  by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.

On Aug 29, 2021, at 7:36 PM, Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:



Clyde

On Sunday, August 29, 2021, 04:29:46 PM PDT, Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Sure, it won't be doing the gumball rally run but who drives on public roads at 160 for a half hour?

On Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 3:59 PM Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:

Getting there is one thing…. Staying there is another.  An un-geared AC permanent magnet motor at high RPM uses gobs of wattage to maintain that speed, let alone overcome aerodynamic drag.   Multiply that by 3 in the Plaid.  

Batteries losing that kind of energy in short periods of time get very hot, not to mention the controllers.   

Even if the batteries had the energy densities, the systems can’t maintain  or mitigate the heat… for long.  

Quick, he’ll yeah.   Fast, not if your definition involves range.  (Legs)

Even in testing, one trip down the drag strip, the systems required a 15 minute reconditioning period before the car could be run again.  

On their 0-100-0 run, they beat the McLaren Senna… what they didn’t tell you was the car had to have custom software and even then it sat for 2 hours before it could be driven again.   

I don’t think you’ll see them running Silver State.   They won’t make it 90 miles at speed.  

Don’t get me wrong, the Plaid is impressive, at magazine data.   

Could he have caught Clyde, sure.  Could he have stayed with him for half an hour.    Not without Doc Brown’s Jigawatt reactor.   

On Aug 29, 2021, at 11:33, Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:



The Model S Plaid is 0-60 in under 2s and has a top speed of 200.  If quickness is all that matters, the Tesla will bear most cars.

On Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 10:40 AM Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:

A Tesla at those speeds has no legs.

On Sunday, August 29, 2021, 06:51:31 AM PDT, Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Tesla says hi

On Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 8:49 AM Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Ok if any of you know the Dodge Challenger crowd please let them know that they can’t out accelerate or out handle a 575.

This is an urgent public safety announcement 

I was coming home from a slot car race on I -75 just north of Tifton Ga when this bubba in a comes up on me. I was doing all of 80 at the time in 6 th gear.

With at least 2 plus miles of clear unobstructed on I -175 ( you could land a plane here and yes I would know ) view an no traffic he stays on my bumper even after I move all the way over to the right.

Tired of this I down shift to 3rd and floor it, shifting at the high 6 mark.

The brick tries to follow, only to be a speck in the rear window. 

I touched 160 briefly when I realized that was insane.
So please someone go on the red neck web boards and show them a picture of a horse, and tell them when they see this picture they they should not try to play with it!

Full throttle acceleration in a 575 is unbelievable. 

There is nothing like. 12 cylinder, nothing.

Except flying a fighter with afterburners.

Get used to It Lash…. 

     RF4-4EVR

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

Clyde Romero    

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