Done
Clyde Romero
If you have no enemies You have no character !
Scars are tattoos with better stories! ![]() When you're out of F-4's you're out of fighters!
On Nov 15, 2021, at 10:08 AM, Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:
Amen, It should be moved or discontinued Clyde, you do what you feel is right. But this might be better suited to the small list with Erik, Brian and the other 575 guys.
On Monday, November 15, 2021, 03:56:31 AM PST, Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:
Gavin,
I agree. That seems quite logical.
Can you guys please take this to a aviation list.
-------- Forwarded Message --------
If you really want to go down the rabbit
hole and learn a second language, ask an aviator to explain
RUMINT.
It may sound like English…
Rick, thank you. You turned on the
lightbulb.
You guys are not speaking English, you
are speaking pilot-talk. This is a whole different ball
game and it’s been this way all along. As a civilian and a
non-pilot, I was not aware of your language and it’s
definitions, therefore I have been taking this out of THAT
context.
Any other lingo we should all be aware
of?
Rick, if we ever meet, how’s your
drinking skills? Because we are going to pound back a few
and the treat is on me.
Peter
Sent from
Mail for Windows
Agreed, it is a basic factual
statement. 100%!! I'll even say it is a fantastic
basic factual statement!
If it makes you
feel better, use it, PLEASE. I won't
take issue with your using it, sincerely, I promise.
We come from a world where
content and brevity matters.
Clyde said the same thing in 4
words. You took 12, 13 if you don't include the
contraction.
It takes you 3 times as long to
say it. Twice as long if you only count syllables.
In the air, in an emergency, that
time matters.
In 4 words, I knew exactly Clyde
meant: people died and it was in a plane.
No judgement, no emotion, no ill
will were conveyed to me by that statement. I wasn't
offended (offense can only be taken).
If you don't like the context of
the words, then you don't like them. No one says you
have to like them.
Please, feel free to NOT use
them.
No one in aviation is trying to
hurt your feelings by using them. Nor are they
concerned if they do.
Listen to the patter on pilot/ATC
communications. It's all programmed. Yes, they
do actually count words and try to
come up with phrasing to minimize them.
The patter is designed to
communicate clearly, concisely, quickly. Clyde
lived in that world much longer than I did, both
Military and commercial (nearly the same). It's
ingrained in him. I still speak it, but not
fluently anymore.
You are the one(s) tying those
emotions to those words... because of some
predisposition in your reference. But your
reference isn't Everyone's!
Sometimes cleansing is a good
thing - who doesn't like a freshly bathed baby
Sometimes cleansing is a bad
thing - (see YOUR own definition below)
Now, was that baby "dirty"
(evil)?
It is never always just one way
or the other.
Not EVERYONE sees things from
your perspective(s). And that's OK.
If we all thought the same way
all the time this place would really suck.
Yes, gravity won. It always
does. What goes up, must come down. Sometimes as a
complete unit (preferred), sometimes rapidly
disassembled (not good for living creatures). If it
is sentient (by your standard), why don't they
charge it with murder?
Points
well taken Rick.
I
understand that what you’re getting across
to me is the act of flying is always a
combat to keep this mechanical object
suspended in mid air. An aircraft that in
it’s safest state is at rest on the ground
and in it’s most dangerous condition is in
flight. With the mechanics and engineering
operating in it’s best condition and with
people that have the best training at the
controls, the act of flying is fulfilled and
the craft with people onboard leave and
return in one piece. As a basic principle,
the battle with gravity has been won. So has
the battle of maintaining fuel pressure and
quantity, plus clear conscience of the
person(s) flying the plane.
I
can’t speak for Anthony, but what I
interpreted/understood from his comments and
what I posted last night is that when cLyDe
posts these messages to the ‘List and the
way the subject lines are titled, what I
read relates to lexical semantics. I am
still standing ground on the choice of
wording “cleanse” and it’s true definition
and how it relates to the situation at hand.
Should I understand the act of “cleansing”
is that gravity won in the battle with this
craft? I still don’t think that’s the
correct use of that word. This really has
nothing to do with focusing on a beginning,
nor an end. It really isn’t a part of that
context.
I
will admit that the example I used of flight
MH370 is presumptuous (although – and it’s
been many years since this happened, so I
don’t remember exact details – it does
appear this was an intentional act as the
captain radioed to the control tower wishing
them a good night, transmission went silent
and the path on radar veered and dropped
off. Forever). Fair enough. I don’t remember
which airline it was, but many years before
that, there was that one regional, European
flight where the pilot was on a suicide
mission and punched the plane into the side
of a mountain in either Austria, or
Switzerland. Definitely intentional. But
when you say that aviation “found a weakness
and exploited it” and/or “has removed a weak
link in its chain”, that in a way is saying
that the act of flying and force of gravity
are passing judgements. They can’t do that,
it is what it is. I’m sorry but making those
statements is making it sentient. Nothing
different with cleanse either. There’s
emotion tied to that word as it implies
there’s something “dirty” (evil) and it
needs to be gotten rid of. Gravity couldn’t
care less because it can’t, therefore it
can’t cleanse.
Why
can’t all of this be summed up by saying
“here’s a story of a plane that fell out of
the sky”? That’s not passing any judgement
and that’s not attaching any emotion to it.
It doesn’t imply how it happened or what the
final cause/reason will be. It’s a basic,
factual statement. Can we agree on that?
Peter
Sent
from
Mail
for Windows
Like
others, you are focused on the end,
not the beginning.
We
don't know the pilots made mistakes...
or that MH370 was intentional, or a
mechanic screwed up or missed
something, or a designer missed
something, or the builder screwed up,
or... and it doesn't matter, what's
done is done. The statement is after
the fact.
But
aviation (as a non-sentient concept,
if that helps) found a weakness and
exploited it. Whether it be man,
machine or procedure... Those involved
either couldn't or didn't intervene
correctly. By exploiting a <insert
modality> weakness, aviation has
corrected an error in its realm.
Often those corrections are harsh.
That is all Clyde is saying.... all
that I'm saying. No passing any
judgement, not claiming to be better
than anyone, just that Aviation has
removed a weak link in it's chain.
Again. Not for the last time.
Some
refer to such mishaps as "An act of
God", "Mother Nature", or just cold
hard physics.
Accepting
that "Some" are correct, would you say
God is judgemental? Mother Nature has
an Ego? Physics is cocky?
Or,
are we just shooting the messenger?
I
have found through the years that many
equate flying to be just driving in
the sky. It is not. But until you
have been on the other side of that
equation, you may not accept that.
Food
for thought. Like driving a Ferrari,
flying a plane is a glorious
experience. When your Ferrari runs
out of gas... it begins to slow in the
X axis. But you are on the ground.
If you have power steering, turning
the wheel may get harder but it works,
same with power brakes. 99% of the
time, the driver pulls to the side of
the road by moving in the Y axis and
stops. All you have to deal with is
the long walk to gas station and
perhaps a bit of humiliation from all
the jokers laughing at
Ferrari-boy-done-fucked-up, maybe some
rain. There is no relevant Z axis.
In a
plane, if you run out of gas both X
and Y are also in play. But you now
have Z to contend with... Z is
controlled by gravity and you have no
say in it's presence or power. You
have little or no recourse other than
to trade some of your X for more Z.
More Z also means more time to enact a
solution. Unfortunately, you only
have to air to pull to the side of...
and that doesn't work. You need a
road or something similar to a road to
accomplish your Y and deal with your
ever diminishing Z. You need to be
able to travel to that road. Not so
easy if you're over mountainous
terrain, tall city buildings, homes
with families in them or in my
case... hundreds of miles of water.
This is all compounded (in a jet) by
your control surfaces be EXTREMELY
hard if not impossible (fly by wire)
to operate. Most commercial and
military aircraft have something akin
to power steering and brakes, but it
operates on 3000psi hydraulics. No
fuel - no engine. No engine - no
3000psi hydraulic pump. There are
methods to overcome this situation and
survive, but you better have trained
for it and trained well and be ready
to act in a heartbeat... It may
involve a trip in a parachute, or
killing hundreds of passengers. Yes,
you've got gauges but you have
multiple tanks and transfer pumps to
worry about, contend with. Your
backup is to always be mindful of your
speed and fuel consumption and kinda
know how many pounds of fuel you still
"think" you have on board, that you
can get too, if you can get to it.
Does what is in your head, jive with
the gauges. When you get back to the
boat, do you have enough for a few go
arounds? It's important, you are
trusted with millions of dollars of
taxpayer assets, the life of the guy
sitting behind you. Most personally,
the North Atlantic is F'ing cold
water, you don't want to ditch or have
to punch out.
And
this is just for something as simple
as running out of gas.
Think
about it the next time the gas gauge
in your Ferrari shows low... if it is
even working. What if your next fill
up means life or death before you get
home or to work?
Aviation:
A quote from one of my early
instructors as I was standing on the
flight-line watching a fellow student
up in the air.
"It
is always better to be down here
wishing you were up there than it is
to be up there wishing you were down
here."
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