Ferrari Mailing List: Re: 1981 308 GTSi: disaster avoided, but still in need of serious help.

[Matt Boyd (ferrari308driver]

;-)

Here is a fun story from that repair. I also was despondent over the thought I'd have to pull the motor, and as a result of my ferrarilist whining, Ric invited me down to his house (I live in Virginia, he was in Dallas). I drove my 308 down there and he worked with me on it in his garage. I also paid his mechanic friend (Mike Peters) who had previously worked at Ferrari of Dallas to assist. One night, Mike and I were in Ric's garage and it was getting late and we were hungry, so I ordered pizza delivery. Our next step was to put the decklid back on the car, and those who have done this job know that's a three person job. We decided when the delivery guy showed up, I'd have him come around back to help, and I'd tip him accordingly. Well, the "delivery guy" was a little woman, probably a 5' 0" 20 year old girl. I offered her $20 to come back to the back of the house to help with something. She didn't know exactly how to respond, but she did it. She was the one with the electric wrench in her hand refastening for us while Mike and I held the decklid in place.

Here's another story. For better access, we removed the fuel tank on that side. When I was driving home to Virginia, it was a steady rainy day, and apparently with all the work we did (including of course timing belts and making sure the timing lines were all lined up), we must have *really* improved the fuel efficiency because here I was at a new record miles on a tank of gas and I still had over 1/4 tank left! Until I ran out of gas with over 1/4 tank left. Obviously the float got messed up when we had it fully emptied out. I got out of the cool red Ferrari, wearing my red and black Ferrari windbreaker, and started walking (it was 3 miles each way on the interstate in Arkansas to the closest exit). Cars and trucks cheerfully beeped "Hello!" to the guy with the broken down red Ferrari wearing his Ferrari jacket walking on the shoulder of the interstate in the rain.

Finally, someone in an RV stopped to help. I hopped in and they drove me to the next exit where I bought a gas can, and they even drove me back to my car, of course having to go through the interstate median in the RV to turn around to get to my car. But since the car was on the shoulder and tilted to the passenger side, the amount of fuel I had in the can wasn't enough to get to the driver side where the pump is. So he drove me to the gas station again and I filled it up again and then he drove me back. This time it was enough fuel, but with the cranking I'd done I'd run the old battery down, so now he had to jump me. But then I was on my way....

And that....is the rest of the story.

-matt

'85 308

On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 10:50 AM JOHN ASHBURNE <jashburne [at] aol.com> wrote:

How could I leave out Matt!  Right after I hit “send”, I said “Shit, I left out Matt!”Sorry about that!

John

Sent from my iPhone

On May 11, 2022, at 7:50 AM, Matt Boyd <ferrari308driver [at] gmail.com> wrote:



....and listen to Matt, too! And Ric Rainbolt. We've all done this job with engine in the car. Re-read the brief instructions I sent earlier, that Rob has re-iterated. All is not lost. Take the engine sump cover/pan off, read what we wrote, look at what needs to be done, and do it (or have your mechanic do it).

One thing that Ric mentioned as a good idea to consider is to convert those studs with nuts to stainless steel bolts on re-assembly. Not sure if he or anyone has ever done that before, but it sure would be easier "the next time."

-matt

85 euro 308....been there, done that

On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 5:56 AM JOHN ASHBURNE via Ferrari <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> wrote:

Michel

Do not even think about selling, listen to Robert and Peter!  I trust their knowledge and experience!  

John

Sent from my iPhone

On May 11, 2022, at 3:57 AM, Robert W. Garven Jr. <rgarven [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Michael and everyone sorry for my misspellings I’m dictating over my phone!

I think in Montreal there must be several other Ferrari mechanics including the dealership which probably would be the most expensive but if they could fix it that may be a possibility.

Rob

Sent from my iPhone

On May 11, 2022, at 08:44, Robert W. Garven Jr. <rgarven [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Michael don’t give up, but you’re probably not gonna be able to go to your car show. You need a new mechanic or at least look for another one temporary for this job. I did this twice and I don’t even know what I’m doing. If the shaft with the bearing is wiggling a 16th of an inch is probably just the outer bearing has failed and if that bearing has failed you should be able to remove it and replace it since you already have the pulley off of there . I’m not saying you could replace that one without the inner one but that may be a possibility and a let others like you like Peter maybe comment on that. 

Thinking that you have to sell your car for this is just silly, this happens on many Ferraris and that’s a known failure point, it’s not life-threatening and you don’t need to remove the engine.  

The only part that Peter isn’t showing in his photo is a little inner bearing. 

I’m not as smart as Peter and since he’s Canadian maybe you can talk to your mechanic and tell him how easy it is to do this especially if you have a lift all the right tools etc. you basically take off the bottom cover of the engine which is not hard reach up in there with some little extensions and sockets and unscrew I think it’s only three nuts and that whole front cover comes off easily. I can’t believe if he’s been in business for 30 years he hasn’t done that multiple times.

If you can’t do it find another mechanic that can. Once again I’m not an expert but there’s got to be some safe way to get it from one place to another may be removing the drive shafts?

Don’t panic it’s a Ferrari I need special attention and it always will. Missing the show is not as bad as losing the car!

Rob

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2022, at 22:20, mysavard [at] videotron.ca wrote:

Disaster: Just saw my mechanic (he has been working on Ferraris for 30 years). Showed him the picture and everything and he can assure me nothing can be done without taking the engine out. He showed me another 308 engine that was on a bench and showed me why it's the only way to do it.

I asked him if I could ask the other mechanic to put everything back in with the new belts and drive back home even though that rear drive gear is moving about 1/16 inch.

VERY RISKY but doable.

Bottom line, I'll have to sell it as is. I can't afford an engine out repair job. I had just subscribed to Ferrari Club of America to go to Mont-Tremblant.

I've had the car for 21 years and drove at least 1000 miles every summer here in Montreal.

Is $60,000 cad  a reasonable price with today's market ?

Sad Sad Michael Savard (1981 308 GTSi)

Le 10/05/22 08:13, "Robert W. Garven Jr." <rgarven [at] gmail.com> a écrit :

Michael,

 I’ve had this happen on my car and I’ve taken it apart twice I’m in France now with the band playing so I can’t send you any more detailed pictures, but from what I understand the outer bearing fails 90% of the time with the inner one hardly ever fails. Of course  I replaced both of them the Ric Rainbolt way by taking off the bottom sump cover and reaching up in there with a variety of sockets to remove those pick up tube attachments, it wasn’t very hard it just took a while!  On the later cars looks like  including yours the outer bearings are sealed but on the early 308’s they ride in an oil bath and they’re just open bearings. most mechanics replace the outer bearings as a standard procedure Every other belt change .

Rob

Carnac 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 10, 2022, at 12:30, Michel Savard <mysavard [at] videotron.ca> wrote:

This is a picture of the whole thing. The DRIVE GEAR FOR CAMSHAFT AND OIL PUMP #27 on the left (rear of the car) is moving about 1/16” when forcing it with my fingers. The one on the right (front of engine) is very tight.

Michael Savard (1981 308 GTSi)

On May 9, 2022, at 11:51 PM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

If your mechanic can remove the front cover assembly off of the engine (part # 112473, on TAV 2), you can send that whole piece out to me, and I can remove the stuck cam belt drive gears... If that’s what you mean when you say that your mechanic has no idea how to remove it (that it’s too tight).

Instead of taking pictures of the parts catalogue page, go down to the shop and take a picture (or pictures) of the part(s) causing trouble. I am willing to help you with this. It would be great to see you and your car at Mt Tremblant.

Peter

Sent fromMailfor Windows

From:Michel Savard
Sent:May 9, 2022 3:34 AM
To:Peter Rychel
Subject:Re: [Ferrari] 1981 308 GTSi: disaster avoided, but still in need of serious help.

Excuse my ignorance, but ship what out ? 

Michael Savard

On May 9, 2022, at 12:02 AM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

More than likely, the bearing, because it has been worn out, has probably spun on the gear drive spindle, causing galling/damage that now it is seized. The only way is to cut it off.

Contact me off list and I will provide you my mailing address. Ship it out to me and I will remove it for you. Ship it out to me ASAP and I will remove it ASAP. You can remove that whole front cover off of the engine by removing the lower studs that go through the transaxle case. Rob Garven on the ‘List has done this before with his GT4. From there, those drive assemblies can be removed. Remember, I work in heavy industry and do stuff like this all of the time – and have dealt with stubborn issues just like this!

I am going to Mt Tremblant as well, I’m shipping my Mondial out there and I’m spending time before and after the event to visit family and friends in the Ottawa and Montreal areas. We’ll have a mini Ferrarilist reunion while we’re all there.

Peter

Sent fromMailfor Windows

From:Michel Savard
Sent:May 8, 2022 10:45 AM
To:PeterGT4
Cc:The FerrariList
Subject:[Ferrari] 1981 308 GTSi: disaster avoided, but still in need of serious help.

As I said in my previous email, I asked my mechanic to change the belts. Now he is stuck because of a major problem.

O<tav-8.jpeg>nce the belts were out, he noticed the REAR BELT was so worned out, 3/4” of rubber was left on it. I forgot to check how large a new one is. The difference is huge. It was rubbing seriously on the pulley I guess. He touched the 2 “DRIVE GEAR FOR CAMSHAFT AND OIL PUMP” #27 (the one at the back of the engine) on TAV 8 in my parts manual is loose. I’d say it’s moving about less than 1/16”. The one at the front is very tight.

He knows/thinks he has to change the BEARING ON BACK COVER #30 TAV 8, but does not know how to do it. Everything is too tight.

I don’t want to miss out on the meeting at Mont-Tremblant on july 23rd -27th.

Please, please, please help us!

Michael Savard

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