Ferrari Mailing List: Re: 328gt4

[Grahame Reinthal (grahame]

Hi Dennis, Thanks for your comprehensive information on brake fluids. I
certainly don't want a mushy brake pedal!  And your idea of alternating
fluids of 2 different colours and effectively fully flushing the system is
so simple yet so clever. 

I am going to put together a website will a lot of photos and a kind of
chronology of the 328 into 308gt4 saga.  It began when the 308 motor hand a
nasty sodium-filled exhaust valve failure. The destruction meant a total
rebuild, or a motor swap. I went for the motor swap. I will dyno the thing
again soon and see what we are getting out of it, but with the sequential
fuel injection and the MoTec mapping of fuel and ignition settings right
through from idle to 8,000rpm under different load conditions, it is not
only very smooth but also very strong, certainly much stronger than a
standard 328 motor. Sounds different, partly because of unique induction and
also because I am currently running it back into a stainless 308GT4 muffler.
This muffler, however, I think is a weak point and stifling some of the
engine's potential, so soon I want to get something more efficient.  

Cheers for now,
Grahame


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis Liu [mailto:BigHeadDennis [at] earthlink.net]
> Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 3:27 AM
> To: 'Grahame Reinthal'
> Cc: 'The FerrariList'
> Subject: RE: [Ferrari] 328gt4
> 
> Grahame wrote:
> 
> <description of cool motor transplant snipped>
> 
> >By the way, here is a technical question - anybody using silicon brake
> fluid? What is your experience of this?
> 
> =================
> 
> Grahame, welcome to the Flist, and please send along a link to some photos
> of your baby - quite the feat, it sounds like!  The GT4 is well known for
> handling very well (better, arguably, than the 308 successors), so
> stuffing
> the 328 motor in there sounds like the car much just fly now.  Cool!
> 
> Re your brake fluid question:
> 
> In the US, DOT 3, DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 (NOT DOT 5!) brake fluids are
> glycol-based compounds (they are compatible with one another) and are
> "hygroscopic", which means they absorb moisture from the air. Formulations
> between DOT 3 and DOT 4 are the same, except boiling points (wet and dry)
> are different. DOT 3 is used on a lot of vehicles, as it is somewhat
> cheaper. DOT 5.1 is relatively new, and has higher boiling points, I
> believe.
> 
> DOT 5 (NOT DOT 5.1!) brake fluid is silicone-based, is not hygroscopic,
> and
> should never be mixed with DOT 3, DOT 4 or DOT 5.1. DOT 5.1 has the same
> boiling point as DOT 5, but is not silicone-based. (Interestingly, DOT 5
> fluid will not damage paint.) Restoration shops like to use DOT 5 because
> the show queens they produce usually just sit, or else are driven on and
> off
> trailers, possibly on nice Sundays. DOT 5 does not need to be changed as
> frequently, because it's not hygroscopic, so it's one less maintenance
> issue
> for them.
> 
> Few (if any) manufacturers today sell cars that come with DOT 5 silicone
> brake fluid (I think Harley Davidson does). The only way to convert to
> silicone is to completely purge the glycol (DOT 3, 4 or 5.1) brake fluid
> from the system. The number one reason NOT to use DOT 5 silicone is
> because
> it can provide a slightly mushy pedal feeling.
> 
> Which fluid to use, then? Stick with DOT 4, which is what I suspect
> Ferrari
> recommends.
> 
> Overall, Castrol SRF is the best, hands down, but is insanely expensive.
> Ford HD (available from your local dealer) is probably the best value, if
> you're a track junkie and are going to be changing the fluid frequently
> (who
> cares what the WET boiling point is if you're changing the fluid before
> every track event?). I personally use ATE Super Blue and Super 200 -- same
> exact formulation, just different colors. One is blue and the other is
> yellow. This way, when I bleed my brakes, I can better see what is new and
> what is old. One can find them for about $12 a can, and I use 1 can per
> change (heck, when I'm bleeding brakes, I flush the fluid entirely, as
> it's
> cheap insurance).
> 
> Here's a chart of Heavy Duty Brake Fluids (www.SeineSystems.com):
> 
> Brand DOT Rating Dry Boiling Wet Boiling
> ----- ---------- ----------- -----------
> AP Racing 550 DOT 3 550°F (287°C) 284°F (140°C)
> AP Racing 600 DOT 3 572°F (300°C) 284°F (140°C)
> (not compatible with other fluids)
> 
> ATE Super Blue DOT 4 536°F (280°C) 382°F (194°C)
> ATE Super 200 DOT 4 536°F (280°C) 382°F (194°C)
> (amber color aka Type 200)
> 
> Bosch DOT 3 DOT 3 491°F (255°C) 288°F (142°C)
> Bosch DOT 4 DOT 4 509°F (265°C) 329°F (165°C)
> Bosch DOT 4+ DOT 4 536°F (280°C) 356°F (180°C)
> Castrol LMA DOT 4 446°F (230°C) 311°F (155°C)
> Castrol SRF DOT 4 590°F (310°C) 518°F (270°C)
> Ford HD DOT 3 550°F (287°C) 284°F (140°C)
> Motul Racing DOT 4 586°F (307°C) 421°F (216°C)
> Brake Fluid 600
> 
> Performance DOT 3 550°F (287°C) 284°F (140°C)
> Friction Z-Rated
> 
> Wilwood 570 DOT 3 570°F (299°C) 284°F (140°C)
> 
> Minimum spec. for DOT Rating Dry Boiling Wet Boiling
> DOT 3 401°F 284°F
> DOT 4 446°F 311°F
> DOT 5 500°F 356°F
> 
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> Vty,
> 
> --Dennis