Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters

(continued)

Tom, what is your take on vintage race cars in general? I'm trying to convince 
a few buddies to chip in for an old restored single seater. They agree that 
while it would be fun, they're leary of having only a couple of old lawn chair 
quality frame tubes and 2 mils of fiberglass saving our ability to walk in the 
future.

One of the guys was an ex IMSA GTP and SCCA Trans Am driver. He says that a 
modern Indy Lights or Formula Atlantic would provide much more speed and safety 
at the expense of fun and coolness.

Sounds like the argument for a downdraft Countach vs. a Murcielago??

Thanks,
LS

----- Original Message ----
From: "f2kracer [at] aol.com" <f2kracer [at] aol.com>
To: lashdeep [at] yahoo.com; red5hilser [at] aol.com
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com; Staxwax [at] aol.com; len_ashburn [at] 
hotmail.com; alexzanardifan [at] hotmail.com; MaxEd49 [at] aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2007 2:07:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters

The Hewland FT200 (and the MK8 in the F2000 car) and all their clones such as 
the Websters, are an absolute joy to work with. They are very strong, and 
NEARLY unbreakable (if you work at it hard enough, you can break anything!). 
There are no synchros, it's a crash box; there are dog rings (which absorb most 
of the abuse of shifting without the clutch) which must be periodically 
replaced, but they're relatively cheap. As far as maintenance and altering gear 
ratios, nothing to it. It almost takes longer to drain and refill the box than 
it does to pull the tail pieces off (very few bolts), pull the gear stacks, and 
reshuffle them. You can change any/all individual gears in just a few minutes. 
There is quite an extensive list of available ratios; you never change the 
final drive, just tailor the individual ratios to the track you're running. I 
never wore out or broke any part of the Hewland boxes except the dog rings, and 
they were meant to wear.

I ran/run all my SCCA cars on high-octane Racing gas (expensive!). No 
oxygen-bearing additives are allowed in SCCA, gasoline only. In the earlier 
days (when I started), the stipulation was "pump gas only", back in the days 
when you could buy Sunoco 260 at your friendly local stations. There were no 
synthetic oils when I started either, but Castrol "bean oil" was a big favorite 
with many folks, and it did have a very distinctive (and pleasant) exhaust 
aroma.

That incident with the clutch exploding in th Lotus was back before I started 
using lightweight, metal racing clutches like the Tilton; it had a beefed up 
standard clutch and pressure plate. I was in top gear on the front straight at 
Grattan, approaching Turn 1, but not yet into the breaking zone so at top speed 
(130ish). I heard a bang and the car stopped running, and I coasted off onto 
the shoulder, expecting to look in the engine bay and find a connecting rod or 
two on display out the side of the block. Instead, I found that the clutch had 
disintegrated and destroyed the special aluminum bellhousing (fortunately I had 
spares), cut several frame tubes, and clipped the tops off two of the spark 
plugs. Whoops. 

Tom Pattison
f2kracer [at] aol.com
f2kracer [at] hotmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: lashdeep [at] yahoo.com
To: f2kracer [at] aol.com; red5hilser [at] aol.com
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com; Staxwax [at] aol.com; len_ashburn [at] 
hotmail.com; alexzanardifan [at] hotmail.com; MaxEd49 [at] aol.com
Sent: Tue, 9 Jan 2007 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters

This was the best post on FList since its comeback...BRAVO...more 
please....PLEASE!

How was the Hewland box? Did you find it durable and if not, easy to 
service/repair?

Also, regarding the Cos-Ford 1600, what fuel did you run?

Thanks,
LS

----- Original Message ----
From: "f2kracer [at] aol.com" <f2kracer [at] aol.com>
To: lashdeep [at] yahoo.com; red5hilser [at] aol.com
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com; Staxwax [at] aol.com; len_ashburn [at] 
hotmail.com; alexzanardifan [at] hotmail.com; MaxEd49 [at] aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 8, 2007 9:18:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters

Oh, my......I'll have to try to dig the pictures out of storage (except for a 
few 8X10s of the Lotus which are here......somewhere). 
Okay, you asked for it, don't complain if I rattle on: 

I bought the Lotus 20 in early (March) 1971; that was the year of my 21st 
birthday (April), and 21 was the magic age for an SCCA license then. The Lotus 
was originally a Formula Junior car (1962 model, space frame, with a 4-speed 
Renault transaxle), which had had the 1000 cc Junior engine replaced with an 
1100 cc Cosworth MAE (105E/109E Ford) for SCCA Formula C. The unique thing 
about the Lotuses (Loti?) was that they had circumvented the original FJr rule 
which required an engine and transmission from a sedan...nowhere did it say 
they had to both come from the SAME sedan, so Chapman used the Ford engines 
with a modified Renault or Volkswagen (predecessor to the Hewland) transaxle. 
Brabhams, Coopers, etc. quickly followed suit. 

The Lotus had passed through ownership and use by three other Western Michigan 
Region members before me, and it came in boxes......many boxes. I got the 
(pieces of) car, engine, and a tilt-bed open trailer for the grand sum of 
$1,000.00. I was able to con two of the former crew for the car into helping 
me; they became two of my closest friends, to this very day. It took us most of 
the year to rebuild the car, but we had it completed in time to run a local 
hillclimb (dumb!) in late October where I succeeded, with much effort, in 
(lightly) hitting a tree. Learned to do fiberglass work that Winter. The 
following Spring, when the Driver's School came to our local track (Grattan), I 
ran most of it until I fried the engine (Cosworth MAE). Tried again in the 
Fall.......same result. Painful, but I was learning. Luckily, MAE parts were 
plentiful and relatively inexpensive. The following year I successfully 
completed my schools at Grattan and Mid-Ohio, and started 10 years of racing
 the Lotus in SCCA at Grattan, Waterford, Mid-Ohio, Nelsons Ledges, 
Indianapolis Raceway Park, Blackhawk Farms, and Road America. When I bought the 
20 it came with the original narrow Lotus mags, 15-inch 6-bolt rears and 
13-inch 4-bolt fronts. I quickly replaced those with much wider contemporary 
13-inch wheels; never did get any wings on it, nor complete the Hewland 
conversion, though. I had many memorable experiences racing the Lotus, ranging 
from blowing a clutch at Grattan which nearly sawed the car in half (and nearly 
nailed the back of my head with shrapnel), to hitting a bird (with my 
forehead!) at about 130 mph heading into Canada Corner at Road America. When I 
finally sold the car, it was for the princely sum of $5,000.00 and I thought I 
had made the deal of the century (LOL!); unfortunately within 10 years, 20s as 
original as mine were going for $50k+.....oh, well. It went to an American 
buyer who was residing then in Britain, but I think it's in California now as
 I saw some pictures a few years ago in one of the Vintage Racing mags which 
looked very much like my car and the driver's first name was a match for my 
buyer. (Unless the car has since been rebodied with a completely original-style 
upper body, my car is recognizable by a small air scoop just ahead of the 
leading edge of the windscreen).

At the time several of my friends had gotten into Formula B (Formula Atlantic) 
cars, and I was ready after 10 years with the Lotus for something quicker so I 
started looking for one to spend my money on. I took the 5 grand in my sweaty 
palms and rushed off to Virginia, where I bought the B17. I think it may have 
originally been an F2 chassis, but it did appear to have been built for the 
American market, because the gear change lever was on the right. It was fitted 
with the current most common Formula B (Formula Atlantic) engine, the 
Cosworth-Ford 1600, wider wheels than the originals (which were gone), and 
slicks.....big ones!. It had been completely rebodied to what was then a more 
contemporary style, wedgy and with lots of flat panels, so the original 
cigar-shaped bodywork was long gone. Unfortunately it was still a front 
radiator, but came with the side rads and all the bodywork to make that 
conversion. I loved driving the car.....what a hoot! 0-100 in a little over 3
 seconds, top speed around 155, it was like a Sprint Car for road courses! 
Unfortunately, engine parts cost a King's ransom, and at that time (1980s), you 
got to deal directly with Cosworth in Merrie Olde. This meant that you needed 
to get up to call them in the wee smalls here, because you'd damn well better 
catch them before they went off to the pub for lunch. After lunch, all bets 
were off on what help you might get. We grafted a March 78 sports-car nose onto 
the Chevron, since that nose was also intended for a front rad. We only ran the 
car for three seasons, after which I had to sell it and use the money for a 
bigger/better new house, but it gave us a feel for wing adjustments and tuning 
which was very useful a few years later when I got into the F2000 cars. The 
shear power of the car was a real treat, and of course it had an FT200 gearbox 
which was virtually unbreakable, but the maintenance costs were breaking me and 
it had become very hard to justify them.

I ended up selling the car as a vintage piece to a gentleman in Germany who had 
been a Chevron factory driver. He completely restored it to original specs, 
with an F2 engine, and has been running vintage events in Europe with it. 

Tom Pattison
f2kracer [at] aol.com
f2kracer [at] hotmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: lashdeep [at] yahoo.com
To: f2kracer [at] aol.com; red5hilser [at] aol.com
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com; Staxwax [at] aol.com; len_ashburn [at] 
hotmail.com; alexzanardifan [at] hotmail.com; MaxEd49 [at] aol.com
Sent: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters

Tom, I hope you don't think you can just drop a reference to a Chevron B-17 and 
then not elaborate more about the car.

What do you think this is? A loosely car based forum for people to talk about 
lettuce, watches, and cats??

:)

Please...tell us more about the Chevron and the Lotus...any pics??

Thanks,
LS

----- Original Message ----
From: "f2kracer [at] aol.com" <f2kracer [at] aol.com>
To: lashdeep [at] yahoo.com; red5hilser [at] aol.com
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com; Staxwax [at] aol.com; len_ashburn [at] 
hotmail.com; alexzanardifan [at] hotmail.com; MaxEd49 [at] aol.com
Sent: Friday, January 5, 2007 8:05:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters

I don't recall an adjustment mechanism for the delay interval on any that I 
had; the Smiths tach on my Lotus 20 (1962 vintage) definitely had that type of 
tach, and I think my Chevron B-17 ('70ish) did also.   

Tom Pattison
f2kracer [at] aol.com
f2kracer [at] hotmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: lashdeep [at] yahoo.com
To: f2kracer [at] aol.com; red5hilser [at] aol.com
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com; Staxwax [at] aol.com; len_ashburn [at] 
hotmail.com; alexzanardifan [at] hotmail.com; MaxEd49 [at] aol.com
Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters

That's interesting...

Is the timing interval adjustable on most of the vintage chrono tachs? It 
doesn't sound so accurate real time, but if the interval could be changed it 
could become relevant.

Upon studying *some* of the older British cars, I'm constantly amazed at how 
much engineering those Englishman mastered. They set the standard in many areas.

The Salisbury rear and torsion bar suspension are pretty cool. The XKE is one 
of the most advanced cars of the era with regards to road manners.

Now, if they had only discovered dialectic grease...

Thanks for the reply,
LS

----- Original Message ----
From: "f2kracer [at] aol.com" <f2kracer [at] aol.com>
To: red5hilser [at] aol.com; lashdeep [at] yahoo.com
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com; Staxwax [at] aol.com; len_ashburn [at] 
hotmail.com; alexzanardifan [at] hotmail.com; MaxEd49 [at] aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2007 4:59:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters

I believe what you're referring to were known as chronometric tachs, and that 
intermittent action was done to make them more readable at speed (while racing) 

Tom Pattison
f2kracer [at] aol.com
f2kracer [at] hotmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: red5hilser [at] aol.com
To: lashdeep [at] yahoo.com
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com; F2KRACER [at] aol.com; Staxwax [at] aol.com; 
len_ashburn [at] hotmail.com; alexzanardifan [at] hotmail.com; MaxEd49 [at] 
aol.com
Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters

Beats me. Back in the 1950's/60's, when I used to haunt the pits at such places 
as Riverside, Pomona, Paramount Ranch, and Laguna Seca, it was common in pure 
race cars to see the tachs move in increments of a few hundred revs. It was so 
common that I think it was SOP. Both Smiths in the British cars and Jaeger in 
the Italian Ferrari's Maserati's, and OSCA's were the same. My Jaguar XK120 and 
Austin-Healey 100 had mechanical Smiths which were smooth, but they were road 
machines. I remember watching Carroll Shelby warm up John Edgar's 4.5 Maserati 
in the pits at Pomona, and the tach jumped back and forth a few hundred revs at 
a time as he 'bliped' the throttle. Had I known this would come up 50 years 
later on the List ... I would have asked 'Ol Shel' or John, who always sat in a 
director's chair on top of his 18 wheel hauler to watch the races. In those 
days the vast majority of cars were towed to the races using either a pick-up 
or panel truck. Needless to say, I was
 impressed!

Yer pal, Ferrari Bubba

-----Original Message-----
From: lashdeep [at] yahoo.com
To: red5hilser [at] aol.com
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
Sent: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters

On older cars, I've only seen tachs that read a signal off of a rotating/timed 
engine component. Typically, this would be a distributor or a camshaft. If the 
tach jumps, it would have to mean a voltage problem with either the "generator" 
on the engine or in the actual gauge itself. 

I did ask a friend who restores old Jags to add thoughts. Apparently, the old 
XK140s used a cable that ran off of the camshaft. This cable led to the gauge 
which contained a plastic hub that positioned the needle. He's seen these 
cables 
get contaminated with oil leaking from the cam seal. This oil creates a problem 
in the hub mechanism at the gauge and can cause those erratic tach movements.

So, in short...who knows!?!

It would have to depend on the car and what type of tach it uses...

What car were we talking about here?

LS 

----- Original Message ----
From: Doug and Terri Anderson <dnt [at] dock.net>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2007 9:10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters

Done on purpose and hard to duplicate by instrument restorers.  Perhaps the 
old smooth tachs had a tendency to fly way past the actual rpm and those 
that stuttered were closer to actual engine rpm.  Just a guess.  Built in 
damper.
DOUG

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Paul Bennett" <pbennett [at] macnet.com>
To: "DOUG" <dnt [at] dock.net>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:03 PM
Subject: [Ferrari] Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters

>I noticed in many cockpit shots of the older cars, the tachymeters
> didn't increase smoothly as now, but stepped up and down in
> large rpm increments.  Like perhaps 3.0k > 3.5k > 4.0k >4.5k
>
> Any idea of why the jerkiness?
>
>
>
> Great show...18 different race start/finish and view of the
> 'control room' which I'd not seen or heard of before.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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Re: Vintage LM Race vintage tachymeters	<– Date –> <– Thread –>
From: LS (lashdeepyahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:56:13 -0800 (PST)