Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Gearbox lubricants

[Dave Craig (dave.craig]

Charles,

This might be what you are talking about.

A previous car of mine had a limited slip rear end and I mean it was very
limited slip.  If the friction modifiers weren't totally OEM, the rear end
would growl and the car would shutter when turning sharp at slow speeds on
sticky roads.  On not so sticky roads one of the rear tires would chirp when
going slow around a tight bend (like in a parking lot).  When the friction
modifiers were correct (or at least more correct) it would very seldom make
any noise at all, but would still leave two solid black marks on the street.
I assume you can get the friction modifiers wrong the other way and only
leave one black stripe on the road.

This car also came with a small donut spare tire that in huge yellow letters
said it could not be used on the rear end.  So, if you got a flat on a rear
tire, you first had to put the spare on a good front tire and then put that
front tire on the rear where the flat is.

Dave 



-----Original Message-----
From: LarryT [mailto:l02turner [at] comcast.net] 
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:58 PM
To: Dave Craig
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Gearbox lubricants

Hi Charles,
    Hmm...not sure I really helped.  IAC, I'm totally unfamiliar with 
differential chatter - but I guess a limited slip differential must slip 
before becoming locked up - perhaps that's where the slip and chatter comes 
from?  If that's the case, I still don't have a clue what it might sound 
like. ;-)

    But I'll keep an eye on the list and see if I can learn something.

    BTW, Thanks for the feedback -

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charles G Perry IV" <charles [at] carolina-sound.com>
To: "LarryT" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Gearbox lubricants


> Thanks, Larry. That is a good description of clutch chatter, which I think

> I can recognize.
>
> But I think the one people are referring to here is differential chatter. 
> The TR, like several other Ferraris, I believe, shares oil between its 
> transmission and its differential. So if you put a non-slip oil in the 
> gearbox, I think the differential sometimes can't get enough friction to 
> do its job properly, so it slips, as you described, also chattering in 
> some form. The solution, if that happens, seems to be to add a little 
> non-slip additive at a time until the problem balances/goes away.
>
> But I don't know how to detect differntial chatter, or how to discern it 
> from clutch chatter if the car happens to have multiple problems.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- charles
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "LarryT" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
> To: "Charles G Perry IV" <charles [at] carolina-sound.com>
> Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Gearbox lubricants
>
>
>> Hey Charles,
>>    Let me take a crack at it.  I assume you're asking about "clutch 
>> chatter"?  It's the only chatter I've heard which refers to a 
>> transmission.
>>
>>    Assuming that's correct - a clutch chatters when the clutch disc 
>> doesn't grab the flywheel completely but instead, skips across the 
>> surface grabbing, then releasing rapidly over and over.  It producing a 
>> bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump kind of sound & feeling - which 
>> happens *very* rapidly. Also, it happens as the clutch is released - 
>> meaning the clutch is lifted from the floor allowing it to engage.   In 
>> my experience, the chatter (or judder as it is sometimes called) stops 
>> when the pedal is fully out.
>>
>>    Does that help?  I'll give it some thought and see if I can come up 
>> with a better way to describe it.
>>
>> How about this - picture a gear turning rapidly and sometime is trying to

>> mesh with the gear but instead of meshing it bounces off the gear 
>> preventing it meshing??
>>
>> How about that?
>>
>> Sometime a chatter/judder is caused by contamination on the clutch disc 
>> or possibly the flywheel is warped although a warped flywheel often 
>> causes more drastic symptoms.
>>
>> Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
>> www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
>> Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
>> PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
>> Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
>> Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
>> .
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Charles G Perry IV" <charles [at] carolina-sound.com>
>> To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
>> Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:33 PM
>> Subject: [Ferrari] Gearbox lubricants
>>
>>
>>> I'm sure this is hard to describe without actually experiencing it, but 
>>> can
>>> someone describe in detail what exactly the chatter is and/or what it 
>>> feels
>>> like in practice?
>>>
>>> I'm having some continuing gearbox issues with my TR and after having 
>>> had
>>> two good mechanics check it with minimal improvement, my next thought 
>>> was to
>>> buy several different recommended oils and test each of them to see if 
>>> any
>>> of them help, but aside from the smoothness in shifting I'm not sure 
>>> what
>>> else to watch for to judge their performance.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> -- charles
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Jeff Greenfield" <coyote [at] acme-ltd.com>
>>> To: "Charles G Perry IV" <charles [at] carolina-sound.com>
>>> Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:13 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Early 308s and then some
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> <For those unfamiliar with Redline products
>>>>
http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp?productID=38&subCatego
>>>> ryID=15&categoryID=6
>>>>
>>>> The recommended gear oil for Ferrari (by Redline and most Ferrari 
>>>> techs)
>>>> is
>>>> the 75w-90 NS.  For particularly troublesome shifting Ferraris, use 
>>>> MTL.>
>>>>
>>>> I'll second the 75w90NS in transaxle cars.
>>>>
>>>> If you experience chattering of the LSD with the NS, you can add a very
>>>> small amount of their friction modifier, something like 1-2 ounces 
>>>> should
>>>> be
>>>> enough, but I'd have to check my notes to be sure.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure about the MTL (or its heavier cousin MT90) as these are
>>>> non-hypoid oils. I've never been able to get a definitive answer as to
>>>> whether or not the Ferrari transaxle requires a hypoid oil or not, but 
>>>> was
>>>> under the impression that they did.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone know for sure?
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Paul Bennett [mailto:pbennett [at] macnet.com]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:52 AM
>>>> To: dave [at] davehanda.com
>>>> Cc: The FerrariList
>>>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Early 308s and then some
>>>>
>>>>>...Mine was extremely reliable and never had the 2nd gear issue. I 
>>>>>could
>>>> shift into second normally even in winter with Redline synthetic.
>>>>
>>>> Samo samo here - Redline puts the cold 2nd shift to bed forever.
>>>>
>>>>>> Extingusher on board
>>>>
>>>> That's to impress the chicks.  HOT car.
>>>>
>>>>>> Oh yea they leak
>>>>
>>>> My GTB has yet to leak.
>>>>
>>>> *********removing tongue gently from cheek he continues***************
>>>>
>>>> That NZ fellow asking recommendations about which model should probably
>>>> consider the 512bb(i).
>>>> Now there's a performance car with the 308 look.
>>>> My virgin Ferrari lust was Testrossa but after learning more about them
>>>> the
>>>> 512 became my real heart's desire.
>>>> Would still trade my 308 for one today fully knowing the maintenance 
>>>> bills
>>>> would probably double (?triple?)
>>>> Raw performance.  Clyde, do you still have one?   They're truely a rare
>>>> model that I've not seen on the road.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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