Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Gearbox lubricants

[Dave Handa (dave]

Charles, 
You have it exactly right.  The Ferrari transaxle has the trans and diff
sharing the same fluid.  Each has different requirements, so a compromise is
made in the fluid.  As the gear boxes age/wear, it seems (and I am guessing
and could be completely wrong) that the synchros do not like so much "slip"
in the formula, causing the difficult shifting when cold, and sometimes even
the occasional "crunch" from the gearbox on a fast shift.  The solution is
to use a gear box oil with little or no friction modifier, like Redline
75w-90 NS (for "no slip").  You are favoring the synchros over the limited
slip differential.  The possible negatives, is that you may have some
chatter in certain situations.  Usually when making a hard left or right
turn, and on the gas pretty hard...my 328 would do this, in all other
situations, it drove normally, and shifting was perfect!  I tried adding
some friction modifier, and my synchros hated it, and I got crunching on
fast shifts.  According to Redline and other Ferrari techs I have spoken
too, the chatter may be annoying, but will do no damage.  So I went back to
no friction modifier.

Surprisingly, in my 355 I get no chatter at all with Redline 75w-90 NS.
Great shifting too!

Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: Charles G Perry IV [mailto:charles [at] carolina-sound.com] 
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 1:08 PM
To: dave [at] davehanda.com
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Gearbox lubricants

Thanks, Larry. That is a good description of clutch chatter, which I think I

can recognize.

But I think the one people are referring to here is differential chatter. 
The TR, like several other Ferraris, I believe, shares oil between its 
transmission and its differential. So if you put a non-slip oil in the 
gearbox, I think the differential sometimes can't get enough friction to do 
its job properly, so it slips, as you described, also chattering in some 
form. The solution, if that happens, seems to be to add a little non-slip 
additive at a time until the problem balances/goes away.

But I don't know how to detect differntial chatter, or how to discern it 
from clutch chatter if the car happens to have multiple problems.

Thanks!

-- charles


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "LarryT" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
To: "Charles G Perry IV" <charles [at] carolina-sound.com>
Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 4:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Gearbox lubricants


> Hey Charles,
>    Let me take a crack at it.  I assume you're asking about "clutch 
> chatter"?  It's the only chatter I've heard which refers to a 
> transmission.
>
>    Assuming that's correct - a clutch chatters when the clutch disc 
> doesn't grab the flywheel completely but instead, skips across the surface

> grabbing, then releasing rapidly over and over.  It producing a bump, 
> bump, bump, bump, bump, bump kind of sound & feeling - which happens 
> *very* rapidly. Also, it happens as the clutch is released - meaning the 
> clutch is lifted from the floor allowing it to engage.   In my experience,

> the chatter (or judder as it is sometimes called) stops when the pedal is 
> fully out.
>
>    Does that help?  I'll give it some thought and see if I can come up 
> with a better way to describe it.
>
> How about this - picture a gear turning rapidly and sometime is trying to 
> mesh with the gear but instead of meshing it bounces off the gear 
> preventing it meshing??
>
> How about that?
>
> Sometime a chatter/judder is caused by contamination on the clutch disc or

> possibly the flywheel is warped although a warped flywheel often causes 
> more drastic symptoms.
>
> Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
> www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
> Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
> PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
> Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
> Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
> .
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Charles G Perry IV" <charles [at] carolina-sound.com>
> To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
> Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 3:33 PM
> Subject: [Ferrari] Gearbox lubricants
>
>
>> I'm sure this is hard to describe without actually experiencing it, but 
>> can
>> someone describe in detail what exactly the chatter is and/or what it 
>> feels
>> like in practice?
>>
>> I'm having some continuing gearbox issues with my TR and after having had
>> two good mechanics check it with minimal improvement, my next thought was

>> to
>> buy several different recommended oils and test each of them to see if 
>> any
>> of them help, but aside from the smoothness in shifting I'm not sure what
>> else to watch for to judge their performance.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -- charles
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jeff Greenfield" <coyote [at] acme-ltd.com>
>> To: "Charles G Perry IV" <charles [at] carolina-sound.com>
>> Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 10:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Early 308s and then some
>>
>>
>>>
>>> <For those unfamiliar with Redline products
>>>
http://www.redlineoil.com/products_gearlubricants.asp?productID=38&subCatego
>>> ryID=15&categoryID=6
>>>
>>> The recommended gear oil for Ferrari (by Redline and most Ferrari techs)
>>> is
>>> the 75w-90 NS.  For particularly troublesome shifting Ferraris, use 
>>> MTL.>
>>>
>>> I'll second the 75w90NS in transaxle cars.
>>>
>>> If you experience chattering of the LSD with the NS, you can add a very
>>> small amount of their friction modifier, something like 1-2 ounces 
>>> should
>>> be
>>> enough, but I'd have to check my notes to be sure.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure about the MTL (or its heavier cousin MT90) as these are
>>> non-hypoid oils. I've never been able to get a definitive answer as to
>>> whether or not the Ferrari transaxle requires a hypoid oil or not, but 
>>> was
>>> under the impression that they did.
>>>
>>> Anyone know for sure?
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Paul Bennett [mailto:pbennett [at] macnet.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:52 AM
>>> To: dave [at] davehanda.com
>>> Cc: The FerrariList
>>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Early 308s and then some
>>>
>>>>...Mine was extremely reliable and never had the 2nd gear issue. I could
>>> shift into second normally even in winter with Redline synthetic.
>>>
>>> Samo samo here - Redline puts the cold 2nd shift to bed forever.
>>>
>>>>> Extingusher on board
>>>
>>> That's to impress the chicks.  HOT car.
>>>
>>>>> Oh yea they leak
>>>
>>> My GTB has yet to leak.
>>>
>>> *********removing tongue gently from cheek he continues***************
>>>
>>> That NZ fellow asking recommendations about which model should probably
>>> consider the 512bb(i).
>>> Now there's a performance car with the 308 look.
>>> My virgin Ferrari lust was Testrossa but after learning more about them
>>> the
>>> 512 became my real heart's desire.
>>> Would still trade my 308 for one today fully knowing the maintenance 
>>> bills
>>> would probably double (?triple?)
>>> Raw performance.  Clyde, do you still have one?   They're truely a rare
>>> model that I've not seen on the road.
>>>
>>>
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>>
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> 

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