Ferrari Mailing List: Re: FNA Notice to Dealers

[clyde romero (clyderomero]

You all are missing the point the dealer wins both ways 
After he sells you all of this shit to make your car look like something
from MTV video and now the car goes Bananas 

You say "what the"

then you try to bring it back to him with this shit on it
 he charges you retail to get it back to stock after he bends you over
because it is a used car
Because now you want to sell it" cause it don’t work so well"

And if you keep the shit box with all this non sense on it and it gives you
problems he hits you up for his hourly rate ($100 or more ) just to tell you
that you have to return it to stock but your will need all the stuff that
you took off( lower you pants and bend over)

I mean for the FNA dealer it is a win win deal money both ways 
Full retail pop for buying the 430 and top dollar for all the Barbie
Accessories that the west palm beach crowd "must have" and the dealer
charges to install the stuff 
I mean drug dealers don’t get away with it this good!


Clyde   

         
 
Capt. Clyde Romero Jr.
ALPA NSC Airspace 
Manpad SME
C.Romero [at] ALPA.ORG
Mobile 678 641 9932
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Liu [mailto:bigheaddennis [at] gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 5:10 PM
To: clyde
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] FNA Notice to Dealers

That's the implication, of course.  FNA cannot *tell* dealers what they can
and cannot do, in this regard, but they can certainly do their best to put
the fear of god into them about this sort of thing.  If I were a dealer, I'd
be careful about such things as ECU flashing and Tubi installs.  And
mounting giant, heavy 20+" wheels?  Geez.  I can't believe that dealers do
things like replace steering wheels (major, major potential liability).
 
vty,
 
--Dennis

  _____  

From: Matt Boyd [mailto:ferrari308driver [at] gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 3:08 PM
To: BigHeadDennis [at] gmail.com
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] FNA Notice to Dealers


Not that I'm agreeing with what FNA is saying, but isn't it just them
telling the dealers to stop installing aftermarket things?
 
-matt
'85 308

 
On 2/15/07, Dennis Liu <bigheaddennis [at] gmail.com> wrote: 

Yes, FNA has the obligation to show that the failure results from the
aftermarket modification - which is why I wrote, in my first response in 
this thread, "Now, it's still incumbent on FNA to show that the aftermarket
exhaust caused the damage".  :-)

And as to the degree that the manufacturer has to demonstrate the
causation... That's an open question.  Clearly, a Tubi isn't going to affect

the ABS system, but if FNA concludes that a mapped ECU caused engine damage
(let's see, we'll remap the ECU and take out all of the safety margin that
Ferrari built-in...), well, that's hard to refute without some legal fees. 

And this makes it TOUGHER for dealers - because they make a fair bit of
money by selling Tubis and ECUs and making other modifications.

Vty,

--Dennis


-----Original Message-----
From: jimshadow [at] verizon.net [mailto:jimshadow [at] verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 3:03 PM
To: Dennis Liu
Cc: The FerrariList 
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] FNA Notice to Dealers

Well, if customers choose not to mod their car, then it makes life easier
for FNA and the dealers who will gladly sell you what they have.
Also,  doesn't FNA have the obligation to PROVE that the failure was caused 
by the part in question?  Seems like an awfully difficult task.
Jim
Sent from my BlackBerryR wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Brown <barchetta [at] verizon.net  <mailto:barchetta [at] 
verizon.net> >
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 11:42:41
To:JIM <jimshadow [at] verizon.net>
Cc:'The FerrariList' <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
<mailto:ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> >
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] FNA Notice to Dealers

I understand what you are saying. Maybe I misinterpreted.

It seems to me the flavor of the message is to discourage by declining
warranty work because they have interpreted some sort of trending to 
indicate that if you do "THIS" we will not cover it. Period!

So in essence you're SOL before any real diagnosis is done to confirm that
YES your CEL was directly related to your installation of an aftermarket 
exhaust. So say you have a faulty ECU from the factory (this never happens,
right? :-)) and it's failure just so happens to coincide with you installing
an aftermarket exhaust, you're screwed even though that wasn't the cause... 

As far as ECU flashing, I've actually been in that very situation. But I
was allowed to reinstall the OEM part before filing a warranty claim..... I
guess it depends on the comfort level of the dealer. I also guess they have 
to take a hard line somewhere.

Jim

Dennis Liu <bigheaddennis [at] gmail.com> wrote:
You're right about Magnusson-Moss, but that's actually what the letter 
from FNA is addressing. In effect, if a modification causes a problem, then
FNA is going to decline to pick it up. The letter is notice to dealerships
of that.

Now, trying to be objective about it, and noting that FNA has, in the past, 
been a complete scrooge on some warranty claims, I have to mostly agree with
FNA's position here.

If an owner has aftermarket modifications done to the car, ***AND*** those
modifications ***CAUSE*** a problem, then why should the manufacturer be on 
the hook for something? Jim, FNA isn't saying, "change the exhaust and we'll
void the entire warranty", or even "change the exhaust and we'll decline to
cover damage to the transmission." They are saying, "change the exhaust, and

we'll decline to cover your labor charges to reset the CEL and any
consequential damage, such as catalyst failure." Now, it's still incumbent
on FNA to show that the aftermarket exhaust caused the damage, but it's 
hardly unreasonable to think that an aftermarket exhaust and engine ECU
mapping *can* cause a CEL illumination or other adverse effects.

Vty,

--Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim and Cheryl Brown [mailto: barchetta [at] verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:19 PM
To: Dennis Liu
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] FNA Notice to Dealers

Looks like Ferrari is jumping on the bandwagon that so many other 
manufacturers have joined. The magnusson-moss act I thought was pretty clear
about proof that a specific mod only affects a specific system/component and
not the whole car?

I suppose tracking your ferrari will void the warranty next? If this isn't 
the case already.

JB

Ric Rainbolt wrote:

FYI....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------

To all parts managers, 

Re: Use of Non-Genuine Aftermarket Parts


Following an increasing number of vehicle failures and customer complaints
concerning the fitting of non-genuine aftermarket components, I wish to
bring your urgent attention to some of the possible consequences. 

FNA has observed more and more dealers becoming involved with the fitting of
non-genuine aftermarket exhausts, different specification non-genuine
wheels, Engine ECU "chipping" (i.e. re-programming), seat modifications, 
steering wheel changes and suspension ride height adjustments to name a few.
Each of these has the potential not only to void a customer's warranty, but
could also result in the dealer being held liable for possible product 
related issues.

Examples of such potential problems include loss of airbag due to steering
wheel replacement. Engine failure or malfunction, check engine light
illumination, damaged catalytic converters, due to engine ECU reprogramming 
and or the fitting of non genuine aftermarket exhausts. Suspension failure
caused by the fitting of different specification non-genuine wheels. Fender
damage, uneven tire wear and handling issues caused by changing ride 
heights. These are just a few examples...the list goes on.

As we have communicated to you previously. these modifications are strictly
against Ferrari policy for cars under warranty. I am astounded that a dealer

would carry out any of these modifications on any car of any age as the
potential loss certainly outweighs the short term gain. The vehicles
warranty book clearly states " The limited warranty does not cover misuse, 
negligence, overloading, or any type of modifications."

The issue of exhaust systems is becoming more common since model year 05
cars have even more stringent emissions requirements and the threshold for 
setting errors is very low. We have cases showing (e.g. 4 Tubi systems in
California last week alone) that with any exhaust modification, an error can
be set in the engine management system and a check engine light will be 
visible on the instrument cluster. The long term effects include, but are
not limited to, excessive engine heat, catalyst failure, incorrect air/fuel
mixture, and possible engine failure.

This practice must stop immediately. Any dealer fitting any non-genuine 
parts or accessory on a Ferrari that is under warranty will be held
responsible for all consequential repair costs for that car for the
remainder of the warranty period and Ferrari will also hold dealer
responsible for any other related liabilities, e.g., accidents, personal and
property damage, etc.

Sincerely


V.P. Technical Services
FNA


Director, Parts & Accesories Operations
FNA

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