Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Check out the FAQs from Ferrari of Denver

[Tom Reynolds (kjtar]

You misunderstood my post, Dennis.  And maybe Rob's as well.  I'm not
against people trying to get as much money for something as they can.  I
don't like the snobbish, elitist attitude that Rob was referring to.
That's all.  No biggie.
Tom
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Liu" <bigheaddennis [at] gmail.com>
To: "'Tom Reynolds'" <kjtar [at] cox.net>
Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Ferrari] Check out the FAQs from Ferrari of Denver


> <can't...restrain...myself...>
>
> Tell me, Rob, or Tom.
>
> Why is it "greedy" for a dealer to sell a new Ferrari for whatever people
> will pay for it?
>
> Let me ask this question - assume that Ferrari did not announce any
prices.
> No MSRP.
>
> Instead, Ferrari allowed each dealer to sell their allocations at whatever
> the market would bear.  Say that each dealer, when it received a car,
would
> auction it off.
>
> Would that be greedy?
>
> Do you really think that the dealer ought to be obligated to sell their
> precious few allocated new Ferraris to any guy off the street, and then
that
> lucky guy can auction it off and keep the $50k difference?  Why should
that
> $50k NOT go to th dealer?  Is it some inherent right of the guy off the
> street?
>
> Ah, might you say, did that guy "earn" that right by getting on a list?
So,
> simply by virtue of waiting a few years, I've *earned* the right to the
$50k
> profit, instead of the dealer?
>
> Please.  Stop the hypocrisy.  When we have an asset to sell, whether it's
a
> car, a house, a guitar, an electric toothbrush, we want to obtain the
> maximum price that people will pay.  Whether we sell it at auction or not,
> if we have multiple parties that want to buy it, we'll sell it to the one
> that will pay the most money (and don't kid yourself otherwise).
>
> Tom, if you were selling your house, listed it for $500k, and you woke up
> and had five guys lined up outside your door that wanted to buy, do you
take
> $500k to the guy who happened to be first in line, or do you entertain
> offers from all give guys?
>
> So why the heck is that different from the Ferrari dealer?
>
> Vty,
>
> --Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Reynolds [mailto:kjtar [at] cox.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 9:58 PM
> To: Dennis Liu
> Cc: The FerrariList
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Check out the FAQs from Ferrari of Denver
>
> Well, you know Rob, it's just the usual elitist snobbery.  I mean, I guess
> there's a place for that (FoDenver, apparently) but it's just too bad
people
> have to be that petty.
> Sympathetically,
> Tom in Tulsa
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert W. Garven Jr." <rgarven [at] gmail.com>
> To: "Tom Reynolds" <kjtar [at] cox.net>
> Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Check out the FAQs from Ferrari of Denver
>
>
> > What they should say is:
> >
> > We are too greedy to sell you a new Ferrari so we will sell it to our
> > best friend then he will sell it back to us and we will then sell you
> > a used ferrari for $50,000 over MSRP.
> >
> > I think they sound like every Ferrari dealer is expected and frankly
> > very sad....... I wouldn't buy a sticker from them...
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Apr 4, 2007, at 9:44 PM, Dennis Liu wrote:
> >
> > > Awesome, just awesome Frequently Asked Questions section on the
> > > Ferrari of
> > > Denver website.  Just the right amount of obnoxiousness, mixed in
> > > with a
> > > whole lot of truth.  Bravo.
> > >
> > > vty,
> > >
> > > --Dennis
> > >
> > > http://www.ferrariofdenver.com/faq.cfm
> > >
> > > FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Q. What's better? Leasing or buying, or cash?
> > > A. No simple answer, especially on high dollar purchases. Cash: ok,
> > > but it
> > > warrants NO discounts for the purchase ... cash has no advantage.
> > > Leases &
> > > Loans turn into immediate cash, so at the end of the day it's cash
> > > anyhow.
> > > At most dealerships, offering cash lessens profits, don't do the
> > > old "how
> > > much if I pay cash" routine, that actually works to your disadvantage.
> > > Wiring bank to bank money transfers (nationally & internationally)
> > > are the
> > > only way to quickly and expediently transfer large sums to us.
> > > Finance: we
> > > can arrange any term financing (24-60 months is very common), even
> > > with zero
> > > dollars down if your credit & income is strong enough. Competitive
> > > finance
> > > rates come from Bentley Financial Services, Maserati Financial
> > > Services and
> > > JP Morgan Chase, plus others. We can even arrange financing for any
> > > make,
> > > model or year car that we sell. You'll need depth (equally high dollar
> > > amount loans in the past), a good credit score & healthy income.
> > > p.s. We
> > > have no way of obtaining financing for marginal credit. Leasing:
> > > How is it
> > > different from financing? In its simplest terms: You're paying the
> > > depreciation & interest monthly, and accounting for the disposition
> > > of the
> > > car (turning it in at the end) in advance. If you need tax
> > > advantages as a
> > > business or sole proprietor, leasing wins. Depreciation plus
> > > interest makes
> > > leasing tax deductable for most business applications (see your
> > > CPA). Luxury
> > > automobiles are the most logical to lease, and there is virtually
> > > no upper
> > > limit to eligible cost. Leasing also takes some of the sting out of
> > > sales
> > > taxes by taxing the monthly payment, not the entire purchase amount
> > > (don't
> > > confuse this with ownership taxes & fees for lic. plates, which you
> > > still
> > > have to pay). Conventional closed end leases (80% of our lease
> > > business) and
> > > several variations of open end leases (sometimes called simple
> > > interest
> > > leases) are available. Call for details on the difference, it can
> > > be a big
> > > surprise. Yes, leasing delivers the most car for your monthly
> > > expenditure.
> > > But... leasing is a commitment that is inflexible & therefore
> > > costly to get
> > > out of. Once you lease, it's yours till the end, or bring lots of
> > > money to
> > > pay off your remaining contractal obligation... that's pretty
> > > simple; but no
> > > one seems to get it. Principal is amortized slowly on a lease
> > > because the
> > > debt is never designed to go to zero; no one seems to understand that
> > > either. You cannot easily trade in your leased car, because lease
> > > debt is
> > > structured completely different from a loan. But at the end of
> > > every closed
> > > end (conventional) lease, you turn in the old car & get a new one;
> > > it's
> > > painless and becomes the primary logic for leasing in the first
> > > place: easy
> > > and quick, always drive a new car. Leasing usually requires a
> > > higher credit
> > > score than most purchases. Tie your lease to your own trading
> > > patterns &
> > > mileage; If you normally trade after 18 months, don't put yourself
> > > into a
> > > 5-year lease (yet people still do that every day too). Credit
> > > challenged a
> > > bit? We've even found a special leasing option for you, but still
> > > requires
> > > high documented income. Now, if you keep your car forever, don't
> > > lease...conventional financing or cash is best. And we discourage
> > > those 120
> > > month finance plans for all the obvious reasons; if you need the lower
> > > payment that bad, perhaps you're stretched a bit too thin already &
> > > should
> > > lower your sights. We can tailor almost any plan to your situation.
> > > And the
> > > answer to the most frequent finance question of all? No, you can't
> > > put the
> > > car on your credit card.... cards typically pay merchants with 96 cent
> > > dollars, & we won't do that for anyone.
> > >
> > > Q. Is this the only franchised new car dealership for Ferrari,
> > > Maserati,
> > > Bentley and Lotus in Colorado? I see advertising from others that
> > > claim they
> > > are.
> > > A. Yes. There is NO other franchised Ferrari, Maserati, Bentley or
> > > Lotus new
> > > car dealership in Colorado, And yes, we're aware that there are
> > > folks out
> > > there claiming to be. Wierd, huh?
> > >
> > > Q. Should I buy new or pre-owned?
> > > A. Depends on many factors..... Availability, price, condition, and
> > > quality.
> > > As an example, availability dictates that you're not geting a new
> > > Ferrari.
> > > However, Bentley, Maserati & Lotus cars are available in limited
> > > numbers as
> > > both new and pre-owned. Consider that advantages of factory Certified
> > > Pre-Owned (CPO) available exclusively from franchised dealerships:
> > > With CPO
> > > extended warranties within our four franchised brands, it would
> > > seem almost
> > > foolish to overlook that huge benefit. Warranty like a new car, but
> > > for less
> > > $$ over all. Financing on CPO cars pretty much mirrors new car
> > > rates, so the
> > > savings often make the decision for you.
> > >
> > > Q. I bought a used Ferrari/Maserati/Bentley/Lotus somewhere else.
> > > Can you
> > > put a Certified Pre-Owned Warranty on this?
> > > A. Of course not. NO manufacturer will certify any car that their
> > > franchised
> > > dealership did not sell, has not owned, and inspected & serviced &
> > > brought
> > > up to date in every aspect of its reconditioning. We believe in the
> > > benefits
> > > of the factory extended warranty. And the CPO warranty on any brand is
> > > always available exclusively from that franchised dealership, and
> > > never an
> > > independent. We can't put a CPO warranty on a Jaguar, and a Jaguar
> > > dealership can't put CPO on a Bentley.
> > >
> > > Q. Is it true that I cannot order a new Ferrari?
> > > A. Yes. And while that might sound a bit rude, it is really a simple
> > > equation of supply and demand. Do you really think we'd turn away
> > > perfectly
> > > good revenue? In a perfect world, we could get all the new Ferraris
> > > that we
> > > could sell (like the Ford or Chevy dealer can). But we can't. New
> > > Ferrari
> > > cars are limited. Under 5000 each year for the entire planet. At
> > > all the USA
> > > franchised Fererari dealerships, the 430s & 599s are pre-sold &
> > > back ordered
> > > many years in advance. So... Rather than let our back-order
> > > situation just
> > > get worse, we had to fix the problem. But it's not just Ferrari of
> > > Denver.
> > > All the franchised Ferrari dealers are sold-out years into the
> > > future. Check
> > > around, it's true. We're delivering Ferrari cars in 2007 that were
> > > ordered
> > > in 2001-2 (no kidding). Ferrari of Denver no longer accepts orders
> > > on new
> > > Ferrari because the demand side of that equation got too big and
> > > the supply
> > > side stayed the same. Now, think what that does in the marketplace
> > > for value
> > > of ANY Ferrari. For Ferrari cars available now, focus on the trade-in
> > > Ferraris on the inventory page.
> > >
> > > Q. Can I order a new Bentley?
> > > A. Yes, But it might not be necessary. We have a pretty fair
> > > selection of
> > > Continental-series Bentley. In most cases.... Bentley build-
> > > positions are
> > > available in VERY limited numbers, and we will build a Bentley for
> > > you with
> > > a non refundable cash deposit. Azure and Arnage probably cannot be
> > > ordered,
> > > as the pipeline between order date and delivery date is 8-12
> > > months; these
> > > are still handbuilt by skilled artisans. Continental Convertible is
> > > mostly
> > > sold out, Flying Spur is mostly out of production (for the time
> > > being) but
> > > the inventory is fairly good nationwide, and the GT is becoming
> > > quite rare
> > > to find a production slot. And note: we can not retail into another
> > > Bentley
> > > retailer's state.
> > >
> > > Q. Can I order a new Maserati?
> > > A. Yes. But again, it might not be necessary. The new Quattroporte
> > > Automatic
> > > is available now in limited numbers, and a special order at this
> > > time will
> > > probably take 6 months. The coupe and convertible are currently not
> > > being
> > > produced, but we stock a fair number of Certified Pre-Owned
> > > 2002-2006 at any
> > > given time.
> > >
> > > Q. Can I order a new Lotus?
> > > A. Not for 2007. The production numbers will be too small
> > > nationwide. You're
> > > buying from inventory, and remember that we can (probably) get you
> > > any color
> > > you might want from any of our associate Lotus dealers across the
> > > country.
> > >
> > > Q. Can we just stop by the showroom and look and maybe take a
> > > picture or
> > > two?
> > > A. Yes, please be our guest. We welcome folks from all over the
> > > country that
> > > just stop in to look and maybe shoot the breeze for awhile.
> > >
> > > Q. Can I have some new car brochures?
> > > A. No longer. With the internet, our four franchised manufacturers
> > > have gone
> > > to virtual information, all of which can be printed from their
> > > websites.
> > >
> > > Q. Can I come test drive a Ferrari?
> > > A. No.
> > >
> > > Q. How about a Bentley?
> > > A. Probably not.
> > >
> > > Q. Ok, how about a Lotus?
> > > A. Probably not.
> > >
> > > Q. How about a Maserati?
> > > A. Probably not.
> > >
> > > Q. Why can't I come drive your cars? Every other dealership will
> > > let us
> > > drive.
> > > A. Here's our company philosophy: Isn't it nice to know that when you
> > > purchase a Ferrari or Bentley or Maserati or Lotus from Ferrari of
> > > Denver
> > > that it hasn't been loaned out to every wacko who walks thru the door?
> > > Here's what we know: Drivers aren't buyers and buyers aren't
> > > drivers....
> > > it's THE oldest rule in exotic car sales, and it is 100% accurate.
> > > Real
> > > buyers simply don't even ask. We aren't the local amusement park,
> > > and this
> > > isn't the local Ford dealership. As a business, we won't risk a
> > > valuable
> > > automobile for your amusement. There's no shortage of folks who
> > > would love
> > > to spend their day entertaining themselves at our expense, playing
> > > Ferrari/Bentley/etc buyer. And yes, really, we really do sell these
> > > cars
> > > without a test-drive or demo-drive.
> > >
> > > Q. How many cars does Ferrari of Denver sell in a year.
> > > A. Average 365: all four franchises, excludes wholesale cars that
> > > we do not
> > > keep. About the same as a larger domestic dealership sells in a month.
> > >
> > > Q. How do I get one of those wholesale cars?
> > > A. You can't. We wholesale within a very limited group of franchised
> > > dealers. But.... look on E-BAY for our non-franchised cars & selected
> > > specials. Usually a good selection of diverse cars that are
> > > available for
> > > bid, plus you can come view them at the dealership in person. We
> > > have a 100%
> > > positive rating with past E-bay buyers. Doesn't get much better.
> > >
> > > Q. I want to sell advertising to Ferrari of Denver. Who do I contact?
> > > A. Mostly, we are linked to several philanthropic & charitable
> > > organizations
> > > and client-based relationships. We advertise very little, and most
> > > of what
> > > you do see costs us nothing. New advertising venues will not be
> > > considered.
> > >
> > > Q. Can I call you guys and ask for free advice?
> > > A. Yes, as long as you remember that it's worth what it costs.
> > >
> > > Q. How does one join that exclusive group of Ferrari owners, if
> > > there are no
> > > new cars available for sale?
> > > A. Most of Ferrari's clientele is well-established and has been so for
> > > decades. That opportunity is long passed. 99.9% of first time
> > > Ferrari buyers
> > > start with a pre-owned Ferrari. Keep within your budget, and buy
> > > the best
> > > car that you can afford; not the worst, and certainly not the
> > > cheapest, then
> > > trade up. Provenance (history/documentation)is everything. Buy from a
> > > franchised Ferrari dealership, even if it isn't us. ONLY Ferrari
> > > dealerships
> > > can get you Ceretified Pre Owned Ferrari Factory extended
> > > warranties. Your
> > > Ferrari will be worth more in the future with good Ferrari history.
> > > Also
> > > consider having the Ferrari factory CERTIFY your prize 25 year old
> > > or older
> > > Ferrari. Fairly inexpensive, and multiplies the value. We can
> > > arrange that
> > > for you.
> > >
> > > Q. Should I take my Ferrari to an independent for service and repairs?
> > > A. That's completely up to you. But, for newer Ferrari models,
> > > absolutley
> > > not. No independent has the factory's support and warranties (even
> > > though
> > > they will tell you different). Our very own Bill Evandon is ONE of
> > > only NINE
> > > Ferrari Factory certified Master Technicians in the USA, right here at
> > > Ferrari of Denver (the other 8 are also within the franchised Ferrari
> > > community). That's a tough act to follow. Plus you'll also get
> > > Ferrari-backed nationwide warranty on almost all service and
> > > repairs. Again,
> > > no indy can claim that. For your prized Ferrari's future value, it's
> > > certainly easier to explain franchised Ferrari dealership service
> > > documentation; it spends well when you go to sell. Buyers like
> > > seeing that
> > > you can actually care for the Ferrari properly. If you need it done
> > > cheap
> > > and probably half-wrong, go for it. We're still here to help you do it
> > > right, later.
> > >
> > > Q. Is Alfa Romeo coming back to the USA?
> > > A. Yes, perhaps as early as 2008. But the brand won't be the
> > > $10,000 Spider
> > > we used to sell in the late 70s & early 80s.
> > >
> > > Q. I have a Ferrari. My friends have been invited to your private
> > > track
> > > events in the past, how do I get an invitation?
> > > A. If your Ferrari is from somewhere else (we didn't sell it)
> > > you're still
> > > on the outside looking in. Sorry.
> > >
> > > Q. Can you arrange a factory tour at Ferrari?
> > > A. Yes, with a copy of your Ferrari registration or title. Ferrari is
> > > pleased to have owners visit the factory and take the tour, but
> > > reservations
> > > are absolutley required. Contact us for details & limitations. Not
> > > a Ferrari
> > > owner? Sorry, no tour because they simply don't have the staff.
> > >
> > > Q. Can I visit the Bentley Factory at Crewe England?
> > > A. Yes, and you don't need to be an owner of a Bentley. By
> > > reservation only,
> > > and we will arrange it for you. Amazing day at Crewe awaits.
> > >
> > > Q. I want an Enzo or F40 or F50. How do I go about getting you to
> > > find one
> > > for me.
> > > A. Like any of our endeavors, we start with the Jerry Maguire (show
> > > me the
> > > money). On the specialty high dollar cars, we'll not accept the
> > > assignment
> > > on a casual basis; instead requiring a contract be established first.
> > >
> > > Q. How many of your cars have their pictures "stolen" for Myspace?
> > > A. We looked it up, and last month that occurred 176 times.
> > >
> > > Q. Can I consign my Ferrari/Maserati/Bentley/Lotus with you for sale?
> > > A. No. We own our inventory. But, There are lots of places in town
> > > who can't
> > > afford to own these cars; we're sure they'll take your car on
> > > consignment.
> > > They're easy to find.... the ones that claim they are real Ferrari
> > > dealer
> > > too. And good luck with that.
> > >
> > > Q. How many cars does Ferrari bring to the USA each year? What
> > > about other
> > > high end makes? What makes Ferrari THE pinnacle collector car?
> > > A. About 1200 new Ferrari are produced for America each year. 100 a
> > > month or
> > > so, That's not very many. GM makes that many cars in about 6
> > > minutes. With
> > > Ferrari's Formula 1 dominance and 60 years of racing history,
> > > nothing can
> > > compare with Ferrari's ongoing excitement and desirability. Ferrari
> > > factory
> > > is working 100% to fill worldwide demand. But, Ferrari cannot clone
> > > skilled
> > > artisans to produce more. So... you can get a new Lambo right now.
> > > Good car.
> > > Or a new Porsche: also a good car, but one of maybe 50,000 for
> > > America this
> > > year. It really becomes this simple equation: supply and demand.
> > > Which one's
> > > the best investment? The prancing horse of course.
> > >
> > > Q. Is it true that 85% of your sales go to existing and repeat
> > > clientele?
> > > Why is that?
> > > A. Maybe it's because our customer support is unparalleled. Maybe
> > > it is Bill
> > > Stewart's efforts to establish this dealership as the leader in
> > > Colorado.
> > > Maybe it's the 35 years of continuous operation in Denver. Maybe
> > > it's as
> > > simple as supply and demand and great clients who can understand and
> > > appreciate that this enterprise isn't a passing fancy. Compare us
> > > with all
> > > the short term undercapitalized imitators with 2-3 years under
> > > their belt.
> > > Our investment in our personnel's ongoing training and
> > > infrastructure, the
> > > costs associated with the building and the inventory and the
> > > growth..... not
> > > cheap, not easy and not easily imitated. Mostly, it's our faithful
> > > and loyal
> > > clients and friends who continue their patronage year after year.
> > >
> > > Q. Do you rent out your cars?
> > > A. No, but it's a common question. No one in Colordo rents exotic
> > > cars. The
> > > closest location for exotic automobile rentals (Ferrari & Bentley
> > > and such)
> > > is actually Budget of Beverly Hills. Be prepared for expensive
> > > daily rates
> > > and huge debit on your card for a damage deposit; but they will
> > > rent you
> > > almost anything you can afford, it just won't be cheap.
> > >
> > > Q. How accurate is CARFAX and all those online vehicle history
> > > checks that
> > > one can do?
> > > A. Mostly, they're pretty good. But as you can imagine, mistakes on
> > > $100,000
> > > and $200,000 cars can be significant. CARFAX is the largest, plus
> > > lots of
> > > sites you've never heard of.... titleguard, edmunds, autocheck,
> > > cardetective, and several others you can find with a google search.
> > > Of the
> > > group, titleguard is the worst; their accuracy is nil, they charge
> > > the most,
> > > and refuse to make corrections. Edmunds isn't much better, and
> > > sadly both
> > > sites have proven unresponsive to documentable corrections. For all
> > > the
> > > sites, errors are usually attributed to clerical issues on 17 digit
> > > VINs and
> > > 6 digit odometers. The state & smog-check agencies that report data
> > > are the
> > > worst; have you checked your annual emission report for accuracy?
> > > Right here
> > > at home, Air Care Colorado is erroneous on about 20% of their
> > > reporting,
> > > reading trip odometers and misreading regular ones. Recently, on a
> > > 2002
> > > Arnage we wanted to research prior to trading for it, carfax
> > > reported that a
> > > 16000 mile California car became 133000 mile car in one month. After
> > > "exhaustive" investigation, they concluded it wasn't probable to
> > > drive 163
> > > mph for 720 hours straight, and corrected it (I still have the old
> > > one for
> > > illustration). Also, high dollar cars often escape insurance
> > > payouts for
> > > minor accidents, so carfax cannot discover those repairs. Accident
> > > report
> > > document numbers are, by their own admission, bogus. They'll get
> > > the state
> > > and maybe the city right, not the report number. CARFAX made huge
> > > strides
> > > after Katrina to accurately identify flood cars, and they are to be
> > > commended; very few exotics seem to have been caught up in that sad
> > > disaster. So, yes, trust CARFAX, but not blindly. Use your noggin a
> > > bit.
> > >
> > > Q. American muscle cars are bringing ever-higher prices at the
> > > Collector Car
> > > Auctions; some costing more than significant Ferrari cars. Will this
> > > muscle-car price bubble burst?
> > > A. Count on it.
> > >
> > > <winmail.dat>
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