| Re: Not So "Smart" Car (was Tulsa Event) | <– Date –> <– Thread –> |
From: LarryT (l02turner comcast.net)
|
|
| Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:26:46 -0700 (PDT) | |
You wrote:<<I don't think that BMW is available in the U.S>>
Correct - AFAIK, only VW and MB are offering diesel passenger cars at the moment. I am hearing that Honda, Toyota and Nissan are all developing diesels to be sold in the US. I suspect that will break the floodgates and help increase the numbers of diesels imported. Let's hope GM doesn;t get in a hurry and try to throw something together quickly like they did in the 80s. They almost killed diesels in the US singlehandedly.
You're absolutely right about the new generation of diesels - plus the Audi diesel technology won LeMans several times! It's a sad commentary on the closed minds of some state officials in that the new generation of diesels are only legal for sale in 44 states! The others have coat-tailed on the Ca CARB rulings which is still obsessed with 30 year old diesel technology.
Speaking of the BMW diesels - one of the F1 hot shoes was ticketed in France a few years ago while running at 130+*mph* in a 330 diesel (I think that's the right model #).
Common rail diesel is so advanced and different from older diesels the new Mercedes BlueTec is a diesel but it doesn't say "Diesel" anywhere. Plus, it starts with out needing to wait for glow plugs to heatup and is as quiet and fast as a equivilent gas engine. All the while returning 30% better MPG's. All this and less maintanence for stuff like ignition systems.
If I had $50K to spend on a new car I'd be trotting down to our local MB dealership -- I'm hoping some come off lease in 4 years with an affordable price. But the MB diesels hold their value so well it's doubtful I;ll find an affordable one that way.
----- Original Message ----- From: <BRIGANDBAR [at] aol.com>
To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
Cc: <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Not So "Smart" Car (was Tulsa Event)
In a message dated 10/14/2007 12:59:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Britt2Asa
writes:
For real economy get a modern German diesel. My BMW 3.0 is fantastic and
does 44mpg. The new Audi 2.0 diesel is really good as well. VW does some good
engines.
If god forbid big US cities try the Congestion charging like London has you
may see a lot MORE small cars. The proposal from Feb 2008 is that the charge
to drive into London (which is basically anything within the M25 including
Heathrow, will cost £25.00 or 50 US Dollars A DAY unless it is a small
economical environmentally friendly engine in which case it will be free. Next time
you fly into Heathrow and wonder why it costs a fortune to get into the city
here is your answer.
You and I are in firm agreement on the expanded use of diesels. Both of my
large trucks , the F-350 & the Excursion are diesels as they are operated in
profit making ventures, the business and the ranch and the alternative V-10 @ 8
mpg was not a viable alternative. I wish the U.S. Governments EPA would just
step out of the picture and allow us some of the really efficient, and great
to own automobile diesels. Unfortunately, by the time many of them get here
they have been so modified that their mpg benefits are minimized. I don't
know for sure, but I don't think that BMW is available in the U.S. The other
problem we face is that, unlike the rest of the world, our national distributors
of BMW, MB, etc. insist that we only see their cars as super-luxury models
and withhold some of the best of their diesels, as well as many models
available in the rest of the world in alternative trim versions. MBUSA would never
even consider importing something like the 240D's that were used universally
in Europe and the rest of the world as taxicabs, nor would they import trucks
like the Unimog for fear that MB be discovered as a manufacturer of
practical , utilitarian vehicles as well as the luxury models that they insist we buy
with all sorts of options such as sunroofs, etc. They even only order their
available G-Class vehicles with those sunroofs despite the fact that with
some rugged off-road or primitive road driving they never work correctly again
and cannot be made to stop leaking. But then again, since many of them never
even have the 4wd mechanisms engaged by the soccer moms who drive them to the
mall that probably isn't a frequent warranty repair issue (maybe a point in
favor of your original theorem).
I guess I just hate government interference in my choice of automobiles (as
well as a lot of other things if the truth be known), and the way that they
regulate my conduct, e.g. I can ride a motorcycle without a helmet but I can't
drive my car without wearing a seat belt. Darwin tells me that if I want to
drive without a seat belt mankind will advance by one small contribution to
the diminution of the gene pool hence they are defeating the entire purpose of
evolutionary advancement. I have a colleague that thinks that perhaps we
could advance mankind by legalizing currently illicit drugs such as heroin and
methamphetamine, but I don't think I'd go quite that far despite the fact that
other than the increase of the crime rate by addicts seeking funds by
committing crimes, which could be self-resolving in a republic with lawfully armed
citizens who elect to exercise their right to keep and bear arms in their
defense I have little to argue with his hypothesis.
As for being "off-topic", I don't have a problem with off-topic discussions
on the list, in fact I'm in favor of them until they begin to endlessly
dominate the content and SJ does an excellent job of intervening at that point.
Ferrari's are just one part of our lives though owning and driving one provides
much insight into who we are so why not permit, within reason, other
expressions of who we are as well. Even Maranello tells us that owning a Ferrari is a
"lifestyle", not just automobile ownership so in fact any such discussion
may by some be defined as not "off-topic". Additionally, it is intellectually
stimulating to hear the views of other folks who also own one of the great
cars, which is though, an example of excess and hardly the poster child for
earth and resource-friendly consumption. And it broadens perspectives in that
many times folks from other continents lack an understanding of events and
customs elswhere.
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Correct - AFAIK, only VW and MB are offering diesel passenger cars at the moment. I am hearing that Honda, Toyota and Nissan are all developing diesels to be sold in the US. I suspect that will break the floodgates and help increase the numbers of diesels imported. Let's hope GM doesn;t get in a hurry and try to throw something together quickly like they did in the 80s. They almost killed diesels in the US singlehandedly.
You're absolutely right about the new generation of diesels - plus the Audi diesel technology won LeMans several times! It's a sad commentary on the closed minds of some state officials in that the new generation of diesels are only legal for sale in 44 states! The others have coat-tailed on the Ca CARB rulings which is still obsessed with 30 year old diesel technology.
Speaking of the BMW diesels - one of the F1 hot shoes was ticketed in France a few years ago while running at 130+*mph* in a 330 diesel (I think that's the right model #).
Common rail diesel is so advanced and different from older diesels the new Mercedes BlueTec is a diesel but it doesn't say "Diesel" anywhere. Plus, it starts with out needing to wait for glow plugs to heatup and is as quiet and fast as a equivilent gas engine. All the while returning 30% better MPG's. All this and less maintanence for stuff like ignition systems.
If I had $50K to spend on a new car I'd be trotting down to our local MB dealership -- I'm hoping some come off lease in 4 years with an affordable price. But the MB diesels hold their value so well it's doubtful I;ll find an affordable one that way.
Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs .
----- Original Message ----- From: <BRIGANDBAR [at] aol.com>
To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
Cc: <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Not So "Smart" Car (was Tulsa Event)
In a message dated 10/14/2007 12:59:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Britt2Asa
writes:
For real economy get a modern German diesel. My BMW 3.0 is fantastic and
does 44mpg. The new Audi 2.0 diesel is really good as well. VW does some good
engines.
If god forbid big US cities try the Congestion charging like London has you
may see a lot MORE small cars. The proposal from Feb 2008 is that the charge
to drive into London (which is basically anything within the M25 including
Heathrow, will cost £25.00 or 50 US Dollars A DAY unless it is a small
economical environmentally friendly engine in which case it will be free. Next time
you fly into Heathrow and wonder why it costs a fortune to get into the city
here is your answer.
Brit:
You and I are in firm agreement on the expanded use of diesels. Both of my
large trucks , the F-350 & the Excursion are diesels as they are operated in
profit making ventures, the business and the ranch and the alternative V-10 @ 8
mpg was not a viable alternative. I wish the U.S. Governments EPA would just
step out of the picture and allow us some of the really efficient, and great
to own automobile diesels. Unfortunately, by the time many of them get here
they have been so modified that their mpg benefits are minimized. I don't
know for sure, but I don't think that BMW is available in the U.S. The other
problem we face is that, unlike the rest of the world, our national distributors
of BMW, MB, etc. insist that we only see their cars as super-luxury models
and withhold some of the best of their diesels, as well as many models
available in the rest of the world in alternative trim versions. MBUSA would never
even consider importing something like the 240D's that were used universally
in Europe and the rest of the world as taxicabs, nor would they import trucks
like the Unimog for fear that MB be discovered as a manufacturer of
practical , utilitarian vehicles as well as the luxury models that they insist we buy
with all sorts of options such as sunroofs, etc. They even only order their
available G-Class vehicles with those sunroofs despite the fact that with
some rugged off-road or primitive road driving they never work correctly again
and cannot be made to stop leaking. But then again, since many of them never
even have the 4wd mechanisms engaged by the soccer moms who drive them to the
mall that probably isn't a frequent warranty repair issue (maybe a point in
favor of your original theorem).
I guess I just hate government interference in my choice of automobiles (as
well as a lot of other things if the truth be known), and the way that they
regulate my conduct, e.g. I can ride a motorcycle without a helmet but I can't
drive my car without wearing a seat belt. Darwin tells me that if I want to
drive without a seat belt mankind will advance by one small contribution to
the diminution of the gene pool hence they are defeating the entire purpose of
evolutionary advancement. I have a colleague that thinks that perhaps we
could advance mankind by legalizing currently illicit drugs such as heroin and
methamphetamine, but I don't think I'd go quite that far despite the fact that
other than the increase of the crime rate by addicts seeking funds by
committing crimes, which could be self-resolving in a republic with lawfully armed
citizens who elect to exercise their right to keep and bear arms in their
defense I have little to argue with his hypothesis.
As for being "off-topic", I don't have a problem with off-topic discussions
on the list, in fact I'm in favor of them until they begin to endlessly
dominate the content and SJ does an excellent job of intervening at that point.
Ferrari's are just one part of our lives though owning and driving one provides
much insight into who we are so why not permit, within reason, other
expressions of who we are as well. Even Maranello tells us that owning a Ferrari is a
"lifestyle", not just automobile ownership so in fact any such discussion
may by some be defined as not "off-topic". Additionally, it is intellectually
stimulating to hear the views of other folks who also own one of the great
cars, which is though, an example of excess and hardly the poster child for
earth and resource-friendly consumption. And it broadens perspectives in that
many times folks from other continents lack an understanding of events and
customs elswhere.
Dr. Steve
1964 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud III 1975 Pontiac GV Conv. 1980 MB 450SL 1982 RR Corniche 1985 MB 280 GE G-Wagen 1988 Rolls Royce Silver Spur 1990 Cadillac "Eagle" Hearse 1994 F-350 Powerstroke 4x4 1995 Ferrari 348 Spyder 1996 Bronco 2000 Lincoln Town Car 2004 Excursion + Audrey's 2x MB's
Dr. Stephen B. Spies, CES, CFI Director, Forensic Sciences Laboratory Explosives Engineering Technologies
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If you are not the intended recipient contact the sender by reply e-mail and
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advise the sender immediately.
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of its electronic (e-mail) transmission.
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.10/1070 - Release Date: 10/14/2007 9:22 AM
- Re: Not So "Smart" Car (was Tulsa Event), (continued)
- Re: Not So "Smart" Car (was Tulsa Event) BRIGANDBAR, October 14 2007
-
Re: Not So "Smart" Car (was Tulsa Event) Britt2Asa, October 14 2007
- Re: Not So "Smart" Car (was Tulsa Event) Fellippe Galletta, October 14 2007
-
Re: Not So "Smart" Car (was Tulsa Event) BRIGANDBAR, October 14 2007
- Re: Not So "Smart" Car (was Tulsa Event) LarryT, October 14 2007
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