Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Servicing Costs - 512TR

[Dave Handa (dave]

Lubrication now days means lubricating the door hinges, door latches, and
same on hood and engine lid.



-----Original Message-----
From: Larry B [mailto:larrybard [at] hotmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:00 AM
To: dave [at] davehanda.com
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Servicing Costs - 512TR

I assume that "lubrication" (not to be confused, even in this context, with
"bend over") and "flush" include something in addition to just an oil
change, no?Larry
(Pondering what one calls the level of mechanical aptitude below "retarded
eggplant")



> To: larrybard [at] hotmail.com> CC: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> Subject: RE:
[Ferrari] Servicing Costs - 512TR> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:07:01 -0500>
From: bigheaddennis [at] gmail.com> > Ahhh... do the math. $129/hr. Let's see...
$451.50 for labor on the oil> change (does not include parts!!!), divided by
$129/hr, that's, uh, 3 and a> half hours. So they're probably going by the
book. But since even a> simpleton like me, with the mechanical aptitude of a
retarded eggplant, can> actually change the oil AND the brake fluid in less
time than that, I think> you've just hit upon the real reason dealerships
make money on service -> charging book times on work, and getting their
techs to finish it in 1/2 or> even 1/3rd the time quoted. Ah, the magic of
that business.> > If only lawyers could bill "by the book", rather than
"actual hours", eh?> ;-)> > vty,> > --Dennis > > -----Original Message----->
From: Larry B [mailto:larrybard [at] hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 13,
2007 12:01 PM> To: Dennis Liu> Cc: The FerrariList> Subject: Re: [Ferrari]
Servicing Costs - 512TR> > Dennis,> > Thanks for your as always constructive
comments. I should also have noted> that I would pay 15% less than the
quoted prices, because the dealer has a> "winter discount" for all servicing
performed during the slow months of> November through January. And their
normal hourly rates are $129, which> doesn't strike me as egregious relative
to the rates some Toyota, Honda,> etc. dealerships charge for their work,
especially given the general level> of [in]competence one often encounters
at those places. (For which I am> reluctant to substitute my own mechanical
inexperience and potential> incompetence -- so my trusted non-Ferrari
mechanics (who competently service> my other 6 assorted cars) will probably
get the nod for the simple> stuff).)Larry> > > > > To:
larrybard [at] hotmail.com> CC: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> Subject: RE:> 
[Ferrari]
Servicing Costs - 512TR> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:36:03 -0500>> From:
bigheaddennis [at] gmail.com> > Broadly speaking, Larry, it's supply and>
demand.> > The "supply" of qualified Ferrari mechanics is small - because>
while margins> can be decently healthy in the service business,
particularly> as you move up> the food chain, the VOLUME still isn't enough
to support> many> Ferrari-exclusive shops. This is complicated by the fact
that the> downside> to screwing up a Ferrari job is monumental, as you
yourself> discovered. So,> bottom line, there aren't that many Ferrari shops
around.>> > Applying the laws of supply and demand, therefore, the PRICES
that the>> Ferrari shops can charge is relatively high. They need that
(much) higher>> margin to cover the fact that volume is low. Not so
different from, say,>> selling expensive watches. You'll never sell as many
as if you'd carry TAGs>> or Omegas or Timexes, but you make it up in
margin.> > So how to you best> manage this situation, if your goal is to
minimize your> costs?> > The> analogy I use is to compare it to a
high-deductible health insurance>> policy.> > Pay the simple stuff out of
pocket, or treat yourself (e.g., get> flu shots,> pay cash for check-ups,
etc.) and rely on the insurance to> cover> catastrophic situations.> > In
the Ferrari world, that translates> into doing the simple stuff yourself,>
but pay to have an experienced> Ferrari mechanic do the more complicated
(and> riskier) jobs.> > $451.50> **plus parts???** for an oil change and
fluid flush? My god.> That's insane.> Even for a dry-sump system, it is
simply a matter of jacking> up the car,> (removing any underpanels if you
have them), opening up a couple> of bolts> and draining the oil. The filter
is easily accessible. Pour in> the right> quantity of new Mobil 1, and
you're done. For the brakes, again,> just pop> off the wheels, attach a
power bleeder to the reservoir, and bleed> each> caliper. And crawl
underneath and bleed the clutch too. Even you,> Larry,> should be able to
take care of both jobs in less than three hours> your> first time, maybe
less than 1.5 hours your second. Or take it to a> local> corner shop - it's
not rocket science, and a 512TR is no different> than> other cars in this
regard.> > OTOH, $3100 (plus, what, $1k in parts?) for> the 5-year major
service sounds> fairly reasonable, especially if it's an> engine-out service
on your car.> > Bottom line, Larry, take that> $106-$145/hr shop rate, and
figure out what> you can do yourself and what> you need an experienced tech
to run.> > My $0.02.> > vty,> > --Dennis> > >> -----Original Message----->
From: Larry B [mailto:larrybard [at] hotmail.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 13,
2007 11:24 AM> To: Dennis Liu> Cc: The> FerrariList> Subject: [Ferrari]
Servicing Costs - 512TR> > After previously> being badly "burned" by an
independent mechanic who> performed major service> on my car in a seriously
negligent manner (though> with hindsight I was> admittedly quite stupid to
have used him), I now prefer> to use an> authorized dealer even though I am
aware of some established> independent> Ferrari specialists in my area with
excellent reputations, who> probably> could perform any work somewhat less
expensively.> > Could any of you tell> me whether the proposed dealer
charges below are> clearly excessive (e.g.,> at least 50% more than what is
likely to be charged> for the same work by an> excellent independent
mechanic)?> > One year service: Change engine oil &> filter, lubrication,
flush> brake/clutch hydraulic systems. $451.50 plus> parts > Two year
service: above services plus - change coolant, change> transaxle> oil.
$645.00 plus parts> Five year service: replace timing belts> and accessory
belts. $3096.00 plus> parts > > It has been more than two> years since I had
the two year servicing last> performed, and more than six> years since the
five year servicing, so both> are recommended. I have> probably averaged
3,000 to 4,000 miles annually> during those periods.> >> Thoughts (other
than I should learn to do at least some of the work> myself)?> > Thanks,>
Larry>> _________________________________________________________________>
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