Ferrari Mailing List: Re: NFC, Looking for some Gun advice.

Well, since you sort of asked  - my opinions with regard to glocks.
I have had three.  Each was an excellent well functioning hun that  
served its intended use.  If there  was any inconsistency therein, It  
was really my fault for not obtaining the proper pistol forth the  
job.  Glock has an extensive range that includes a pistol for mot  
purposes.
Number 1 insight:  If I were a police officer and had to wear a  
handgun on my waist several hours a day.  There are several in the  
Glock family that I would consider a good choice.
They are lightweight making the easy to carry, and are available with  
a nice variety of barrel lengths, frame sizes and ordinance.
I consider it a good back up weapon - something relatively small and  
easy to conceal that can still carry several rounds of decent caliber.
Unfortunately, their greatest asset, is - to me their greatest  
liability.   Because of the small, narrow, composite frame, there i  
not much to dampen the recoil effect.  That tends to make  them  
"hoppy" in your hand - irritating to the skin on my palms, crippling  
to my second shot reliability, and on occasion leading to an improper  
discharge, pinch, or rub mark.
Unless a weapons has no (read - defeated) safety, or is mishandled  
considerably - it shouldn't be an issue.
I have owned several guns over the years.  I have a short list of the  
ones I consider best.  S&W 66, 686, 696 .357 etc - big enough to work  
as a club if you run out of bullets.  Big enough bullets to drop a  
target.  I have an FComp - made by their special weapons group.  Lots  
of extra do dads on a 66 - in the end it is a 100% reliable and always  
should be.

It is big and heavy - some might not like that - I feel that it helps  
to reduce recoil, improving my second shot accuracy.
H&K USP - I have the full USP in 9 and 40, the Compact in 9 and 40 and  
the SoCom in 45.
These guns are everything they are  cracked up to be,  after thousands  
upon thousands of shells, in the rain, in the dessert, lots in a row  
or after sitting in the safe for months - none has ever failed to feed  
or fire - except the one time when I made about a hundred rounds of . 
40 but only powdered them for .22.  Even those fired 99% of the time.   
Only once in a while a casing would get caught in its way out the port.
Even though they are partially composite - they have some heft and  
excellent recoil control.  40 Compact is a bit rough.  9 USP is a  
dream.  The SoCom is a cannon.
In the end, shoot lots of weapons, decide what feels comfortable to you.
 No one (at least no NORMAL person) is really going to be happy with  
a Desert Eagle chambered in 50.  It is like carrying a cannon, almost  
imposoble to sight and only carries 5 rounds - - in weapon the size of  
a guitar.
Scottie

On Dec 20, 2007, at 10:05 PM, Dave Handa wrote:
Steve,
Steve,

I like several brands and types of pistols, not just Glock, but  
until you

disclose this enormous safety defect which only you seem to  
perceive, then I

guess the rest of us are in the dark.  In today's overly litigious  
society,

Glock would have been put out of business years ago, yet instead of  
being

run out of business, Glock has continued for the past decade to be the

number #1 selling pistol by far.  It is not just about price, as  
there are

plenty of less expensive alternatives from Ruger, Taurus, S&W, etc.   
Yet,

year in and year out, Glock as remained #1 both in the consumer and  
law

enforcement market.  Yet according to you, Glock has an apparently  
poor

safety record.  Can you cite this apparently "well known" safety  
record?

Where is this data base?  Why would this not be more well know  
amongst the

public, both private citizen and law enforcement?  Why would the FBI

continue to use Glock 22's as standard issue pistol, as well as  
literally

hundreds of agencies across North America?  WHY IN FACT DOES ALMOST  
EVERY

PISTOL MANUFACTURER PRODUCE A PISTOL WITH AN ALMOST IDENTICAL  
FUNCTIONING

TRIGGER AS THE GLOCK PISTOL?  (This would include S&W Military and  
Police,

Ruger SR9, Sig Sauer with the DAK trigger, FN Forty Nine, etc)
I have stated previously that Glock pistols are very safe.  AS SAFE  
AS THEY

CAN BE, AND STILL BE USEFUL

That is a "perfectly safe gun, is also "perfectly useless".  Glocks  
have

three safety mechanisms: 1) trigger safety 2)  A firing pin safety  
3)  Drop

safety

Unless someone is violating the four universal firearm safety rules,  
I fail

to see how a Glock pistol could possibly present a hazard to the  
user or

others.
A Glock pistol will only fire when the user depresses the trigger,  
as it is

intended and designed to do.  The gun will only fire with an  
intentional

trigger press by the user, if the four universal firearms safety  
rules are

followed.
Please enlighten us all, if only to protect us from this terrible  
hazard you

have found in the design.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: BRIGANDBAR [at] aol.com [mailto:BRIGANDBAR [at] aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:25 PM
To: dave [at] davehanda.com
Cc: dave.craig [at] sbcglobal.net; The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] NFC, Looking for some Gun advice.

In a message dated 12/20/2007 5:16:46 AM Central Standard Time,
ferrari-request [at] ferrarilist.com writes:
A friend  of mine has offer to sell me a gun (un solicited mind  
you).  It is

a  Glock G19 with 4 clips (nothing else comes with it) for $500 cash  
and  no

paper work
Dave (Craig, nothing will change Dave Handa' s mind on this issue)
Run, don';t walk away from the Glock. From what you say in your  
posting you
don't have much experience with handguns and any Glock, not just the  
Mod. 19
is  not well suited to an experienced Conceal and Carry owner. You  
can find

any

number of guns with better safety reputations, SigSauers, SigPros,  
etc. in

that  same price range and will have far fewer safety issues and  
potential

for

accidental discharges with these other brands.
As to the four magazines and the "no paper" issue, well, how many  
times to

expect to need four magazines full of ammunition to disengage or  
defend

yourself? And if you did need that many rounds would you really be  
carrying

all

four magazines at one time anyway. Two magazines seem to be plenty  
for most
shooters and gun owners. I do agree with the statements about the  
"value" of

"no

paper" guns. I think all of the black helicopters are still parked,  
the

Federal  (though I don't know where you live so I can't comment on  
state

government)

government has been relatively benign as to who owns what handguns for

quite

a  while, and unless you have a deep dark secret history which will  
prevent

you  from passing the new, "improved" NICS check (in which case you  
probably
won't  qualify for a conceal and carry permit anyway) it won't  
matter to you

in

any  event. There is even one benefit of being "on paper" in many  
states. If
you need  to report a stolen firearm, or prove ownership at recovery  
time

this

record may  be helpful.
Are you really going to carry the gun, or just get a permit to have  
one? If
you are going to carry the gun, I'd be more concerned with the holster

availability, comfort on your hip (or ankle) for most of a day and  
how it

would  fit

in the briefcase you usually carry with you, etc. than the four  
magazines.

There are a number of other personal fit factors that you will want  
to look

at

before buying any gun, Glock or otherwise. As for caliber, for  
personal

defense  you will find a promoter of any of the following, .40S&W, . 
45ACP FN
Herstal  makes a particularly nice smaller model pistol for this  
caliber),

9mm, .357

Sig  in pistols alone and of course should you, after much study,  
elect to

carry a  revolver you will have some other choices as well. And  
contrary to

popular  belief, while they are currently not considered to be "in  
vogue"

revolvers are  neither obsolete nor antiquated, and for many civilians

carrying a

conceal  weapon for protection they may be the best choice as they  
require

far

less  maintenance than any pistol, are less complex to operate, and  
the

misfire

clearing procedures are quite straight forward, simple and  
intuitive. One

other  thing, if you are carrying a firearm for personal protection  
it is

not the

time  to become economy minded. Before you buy one at least go to a  
good gun
shop and  look at several firearms, revolvers and pistols, handle  
them, look

at

the  leather (holsters) and try it on while wearing the same type of  
clothes
that you  will be customarily be wearing when you intend to carry the
firearm.
If you are  most comfortable with a Berretta then spend a little time
looking
for the right  model one and consider that as well.
I guess I've been carrying one concealed virtually every day for the  
last

37

years, in both soft clothes and in a business suit, where  
concealment was

critical and where it didn't really matter much so I have developed a

particular

set of preferences. I'm not going to respond any further nor engage in

addition  pro and anti-Glock arguments (I'm sure you and most others  
know

each

listmembers  handgun preferences ad nauseum) or be any more specific  
on the

list

other than  to reiterate that you should spend some time looking at  
several

guns, both  revolvers and pistols, see if you have any friends who  
might let

you

shoot  several different caliber handguns so that you can decide if  
recoil

is

a  personal issue or not, if you are serious about carrying a  
firearm look

at

the  holsters for each firearm and how they fit your life style and  
then

make

a  decision. If you ever find yourself in the position of needing to  
use the
firearm you buy its acquisition cost, even if it is a hundred  
dollars more

than  another one, will rapidly become irrelevant.
Now I'll step back and put on my protective vest waiting for the Glock
crowd.
Dr. Steve

Dr.  Stephen B. Spies, CES, CFI
Director, Forensic Sciences  Laboratory
Explosives Engineering Technologies
1964 Rolls Royce Silver  Cloud III.....1975 Pontiac Grandville

1980 MB 450  SL............................1982 Rolls Royce Corniche  
DHC

1988 Rolls Royce  Silver Spur..........1994 F-350 PowerStroke Diesel

1995 Ferrari 348  Spyder.................1996 Ford Bronco

2000 Lincoln Town  Car....................2004 Ford Excursion

+ a

1985 MB 280GE Galedenwagen  for Explorations

+ a

1976 HAHN- WARNER & SWASEY- DUPLEX DIVISION HOWE  APPARTUS. THE  
MODEL #R400

FIRE TRUCK w/a 100' Tower System

&

Audrey's  2 MB's [1980 450SL & 1987 420SEL] to care for...
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Re: NFC, Looking for some Gun advice.	<– Date –> <– Thread –>
From: Ferrarisimo [at] Comcast.net (Ferrarisimocomcast.net)
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:03:26 -0800 (PST)