| Re: NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol 18, Issue 58] | <– Date –> <– Thread –> |
From: Mike (themightytoe gmail.com)
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| Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:55:29 -0800 (PST) | |
My thoughts on the Tesla car.. Heat? Green Terrorism? Ever heard of the CarBQue? The real issue with an electric car is that it is still pretty inefficient compared to an IC car. The electric motors are pretty good and much better in terms of power delivery and longevity than an IC engine though. It is the fuel source that is the problem. Wikipedia shows the Energy Density for some materials (by volume and then by weight) so for a car the latter is more important generally since it has to do work to move its fuel source around, the more it weighs the higher the impact on how much work is needed. Gasoline 9,700 Wh/l 12,200 Wh/kg Secondary Lithium - ion Polymer 300 Wh/l ?? 130 - 1200 Wh/kg Secondary Lithium-Ion 300 Wh/l 110 Wh/kg Lead Acid Battery 40 Wh/l 25 Wh/kg Fission of U-235 4.7 x 10^12 Wh/l 2.5 x10^10 Wh/kg So by weight the Li-Po batteries are 1/10th the energy density of gasoline and the Li+ batteries used in the Tesla Roadster are probably in the 1/100th range though they may have something lighter. Which is why the heaviest part of that car is going to be the battery pack. One could argue that cells in these packs could do a Dell or Sony and self destruct due to manufacturing defects, but I expect we would need to wait until GM or Ford (or Toyota) started using the technology... Most Li+ failures have been attributed to 3rd party suppliers of the batteries manufacturing with more than the allowed contamination in the cells. A bigger concern is getting electrocuted in an accident or running over a pedestrian who did not hear you backing up. You could argue that the Lithium is dangerous to the environment but that would be ignorant, a used up Li cell should have no reactive Li left and cells are made with more reactive material the Li to insure that is the case. Hybrids are still the way to go until someone can manufacture a battery closer to 1/2 the energy density of gasoline. If the trend continues though that is likely to happen within 5 to 10 years. -----Original Message----- From: LarryT [mailto:l02turner [at] comcast.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:19 PM To: Mike Fleischer Cc: The FerrariList Subject: Re: [Ferrari] NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol 18, Issue 58] Fortunately, laptop batteries have advanced dramatically in the past 15 years but they still have problems - heat for one. I bet you can cook dinner while driving home from work on 6000+ batteries! Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Rentiers" <rentiers [at] mac.com> To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net> Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:53 AM Subject: Re: [Ferrari] NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol 18,Issue 58] > The prototype is running on 6000 lithium ion laptop batteries. The > actual number is over 6,000 - something like 6318. I have problems > with just one laptop battery, They are also having problems with the > two-speed transmission which are holding up production. I saw a new > phrase today: Green Terrorism. > > k > > > On Feb 12, 2008, at 6:49 PM, Tom Reynolds wrote: > >> Go to their website, Larry, and you'll see that there are other >> charges as >> well. Like if you want a top, if you're not in their selected >> dealership >> area, etc. Figure on adding around $11K or so to the $98K "list" >> price. If >> they ever produce them. >> Tom >> Tulsa >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "LarryT" <l02turner [at] comcast.net> >> To: "Tom Reynolds" <kjtar [at] cox.net> >> Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 5:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol >> 18,Issue 58] >> >> >>> C&D says $98K >>> >>> Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) >>> www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts >>> Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil >>> PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net >>> Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs >>> . >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: <BRIGANDBAR [at] aol.com> >>> To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net> >>> Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> >>> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 6:19 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol >>> 18,Issue >> 58] >>> >>> >>>> Tom: >>>> >>>> I just saw an article about it in C&D but I don't recall any price >> being >>>> mentioned. What is the MSRP on one of these? >>>> >>>> Dr. Steve >>>> >>>> Dr. Stephen B. Spies, CES, CFI >>>> Director, Forensic Sciences Laboratory >>>> Explosives Engineering Technologies >>>> >>>> 1964 Rolls Royce Silver Cloud III.....1975 Pontiac Grandville >>>> 1980 MB 450 SL............................1982 Rolls Royce >>>> Corniche DHC >>>> 1988 Rolls Royce Silver Spur..........1994 F-350 PowerStroke Diesel >>>> 1995 Ferrari 348 Spyder.................1996 Ford Bronco >>>> 2000 Lincoln Town Car....................2004 Ford Excursion >>>> + a >>>> 1985 MB 280GE Galedenwagen for Explorations >>>> + a >>>> 1976 HAHN- WARNER & SWASEY- DUPLEX DIVISION HOWE APPARTUS. THE >>>> MODEL >>>> #R400 >>>> FIRE TRUCK w/a 100' Tower System >>>> + a >>>> 1985 GMC Brigadier Farm Truck/20T Wrecker >>>> & >>>> Audrey's 2 MB's [1980 450SL & 1987 420SEL] to care for... >>>> >>>> Legal Notice: >>>> This message does not constitute legal or other professional >>>> advice, >> nor >>>> does it create an Attorney/Client, or other confidential or >>>> fiduciary >>>> relationship between the sender and/or any other party >>>> >>>> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail (including attachments) is >>>> covered >> by >>>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections >>>> 2510-2521, and >>>> is intended only for the person or entity to which it is >>>> addressed, and >>>> may >>>> contain confidential or privileged material. 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Easy ways to stay in shape. >>>> http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise? >>>> NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: >>>> >> http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/l02turner%40comcast.net >>>> >>>> Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper >>>> http://www.BidNip.com/ >>>> and F1 Headlines >>>> http://www.F1Headlines.com/ >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: >>> http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/kjtar%40cox.net >>> >>> Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper >>> http://www.BidNip.com/ >>> and F1 Headlines >>> http://www.F1Headlines.com/ >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/714 - Release Date: >>> 3/8/07 >>> >>> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: >> http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/rentiers%40mail.com >> >> Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper >> http://www.BidNip.com/ >> and F1 Headlines >> http://www.F1Headlines.com/ >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: > http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/l02turner%40comcast.net > > Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper > http://www.BidNip.com/ > and F1 Headlines > http://www.F1Headlines.com/ _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/themightytoe%40gmail.co m Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper http://www.BidNip.com/ and F1 Headlines http://www.F1Headlines.com/
- Re: NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol 18, Issue 58], (continued)
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Re: NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol 18, Issue 58] LarryT, February 12 2008
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Re: NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol 18, Issue 58] Tom Reynolds, February 12 2008
- Re: NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol 18, Issue 58] Ken Rentiers, February 12 2008
- Re: NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol 18, Issue 58] LarryT, February 13 2008
- Re: NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol 18, Issue 58] Mike, February 13 2008
- Re: NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol 18, Issue 58] Ken Rentiers, February 13 2008
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Re: NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol 18, Issue 58] Tom Reynolds, February 12 2008
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Re: NFC: Tesla Roadster [Ferrari Digest, Vol 18, Issue 58] LarryT, February 12 2008
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