Ferrari Mailing List: Re: "Economics"

[Steve Jenkins (steve]

How much extra have I kicked in to pay for the war effort?

Way more than my fair share on April 15th, then July 15th, then October
14th, then January 15th, then April 15th, then July 15th, then October 15th,
then... well, you get the picture.

Someone mentioned in this thread the top tier tax rate being 36%. Don't
forget self-employment tax! I pay another 7.5% on top of that for the
"priviledge" of taking all the risk and working the ultimate commission job:
working for myself. Throw in an almost 10% sales tax in my state (WA) and
crazy property taxes in King County (I pay over $20K a year in taxes for the
priviledge of living on land I own free-and-clear).

Wow! I get to keep around half of what I make!

Just because it's legal doesn't make it fair. :)

SJ

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael James [mailto:cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 6:28 PM
To: Steve Jenkins
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] "Economics"



Hey, Hey!  I'm a centrist at worst - I've seen both sides of this political
fence, and trust me there are way too many purple-haired liberals up here in
MA to shove the likes of me within arm's length of Limbaugh himself.  I'm
just not 'buying' into the sky-is-falling on the high-wage-earner crowd.
 
The sky is falling on EVERYONE regardless of social class.  If a rising tide
floats all boats, a lowering tide will sink all of them, too.  This isn't a
time for our weathiest Americans to think they're being 'picked-on'....to
me, that's just plain silly.  Who amongst us is weeping for the disappearing
middle class?  Or am I to believe that they are unaffected by all this? 
Anyone on FList lose their house lately?  Or do they not matter in Ric's
economic model, since he may not be one of them?  I'm very sorry if the
salaried-employees of the world (myself included) are not fit to sit at his
table.  Last time I checked, I've paid into the system FAR more than I've
ever gotten out of it, if anything.  Ric wants to rant and rave about
'social welfare programs' all he wants to, he's dancing around what its
really called:  Social Security.  That ticking time bomb created because all
americans are living longer than the benefit was anticipated to  cover. 
That is not a Marxist conspiracy.  Thanks to the advances of healthcare,
proper diet, exercise, and all that, people are living well into their 90s,
and continuing to draw that social benefit - which is only going to get
larger and larger and larger (he's right about all that).  He's also right
that its one of the Govt.'s largest financial expenditures.  But he's wrong
to point a finger at ME about it.  I'm not a Baby Boomer, remember?  I don't
draw a Social Security check.  Never have, and probably never will.  My
grandmother does, though....she's 86.  My great-grandmother does, she's 103
- yes, One Hundred Three.  Blame them for your higher taxes, if you must -
their only crime is they haven't died yet.  I'll let them all know Ric is
cheering for their early demise.
 
That social program that Ric is going ballistic over isn't a 'class' issue -
wanna cut Social Security?  Medicare/Medicade?  Go NUTS!  Be my guest, I'm
pretty sure it won't be around when I'm old enough to use it anyway.  Feel
free to eliminate Social Security.  Seriously.  I guarantee you that will
eliminate a serious financial crisis our nation faces.  Consequences be
damned.  Lets figure-out how to get rid of all these 'old people' first,
though.  Make sure everyone 'expires' on the morning of their 68th birthday
- past that, and they're dipping into the SS money-trough deeper than what
they originally put into the SS system.
 
I don't think its unreasonable to understand that our Govt. has been
spending a ton of money on things that it can no longer afford.  I'm fairly
pragmatic about this.  I am employed by a Defense Contractor, I know where
my bread is buttered, but we as a company have lost money so Uncle Sam could
divert more and more funds to support the war effort.  I'm up here in MA
building Warships for the US Navy, but we're running a skeleton crew and
barely able to keep the lights on.  How much extra have all of you kicked-in
to pay for the war you all supported so much?  Yea, I thought so...lets all
pack our bags and move to Guatemala.  I don't understand this philosophy. 
For the past seven years, the USA has undertaken a great campaign against
Global Terrorism, and wrung-up a huge tab to provide for our nation's
security.  The Govt., as a result, has gotten larger in-response to this
threat.  This was seen, seven years ago, as a necessity to  chase and defend
against Bin Ladin and his ilk.  We-the-People were all on-board with this
plan then...The bill for all of this will be paid......when??? 
 
Love to all,
 
Michael
 
 

--- On Wed, 11/12/08, Charles Perry <charles [at] carolina-sound.com> wrote:

From: Charles Perry <charles [at] carolina-sound.com>
Subject: RE: [Ferrari] "Economics"
To: cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2008, 6:37 PM

Mike - 

When did you become such a flaming liberal? Do you need rescuing from the
Northeast? We will help you!!

Ric is dead on with all of this. It's not the Pickens or the Buffetts that
are suffering from this incessant taxation - it's me! Last year, after
paying well into six figures in Federal taxes throughout the year, I found
out in April that I owed another $4,000 in Federal taxes thanks to the
Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) - originally a "soak the rich" tax which is
now affecting millions of upper middle class families like mine.

You know me - you've been to my house - you know my lifestyle. I am not
wallowing in money, and $4k still means a helluva lot to me. Yes, I own some
nice cars, but the youngest of which is 10 years old now - I'm not in the
"pay an extra $100k for a 599 to be first in SC" club. For me to pay that
incremental $4k, my company has to make an extra $10k in profit to pay that
to me. For that to happen, we have to sell another $40,000 in goods and
services. Each of the four members of my family is in the same position, so
our company has to sell another $160,000 in goods and services JUST TO PAY
THE AMT - never mind the oppressive regular tax.

There are millions of small businesses that don't gross $160k in a year, let
alone make that just to "allow" their principles to pay AMT.
Furthermore, if we had that extra $40k in profit that we have to use to use
for AMT to use for something else, I would hire someone to reduce my 110
hour work week and give me some time with my family. That would be me
CREATING A JOB - just like the Dems always claim to want to do. But that job
will never exist because of the AMT. And for every new tax that is heaped
upon me because I work hard and am therefore "unspeakably wealthy," that is
one LESS job that I will create and that much less my company can do to keep
the economy moving.

Worse, my parents are paying thousands of dollars a month in life insurance
premiums to provide a policy that will pay the Death Tax on the value of
this business when they die, so that the government doesn't force my brother
and I to sell the company that our family has worked decades to build so
that the Dems can give half of it to some people who chose not to build
anything for themselves.

This is really, really, simple stuff and I KNOW you are this smart. I, for
one, am definitely crying...

-- charles

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael James [mailto:cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 2:33 PM
To: Charles Perry
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Are Ferraris Losing Their Good Looks?

 
For me, its a waste of bandwidth to 'come to the aid' of folks who don't
seem to want or need defending.  Every time I read of T.Boon Picken's
exploits, he's made another $100 Million, he certainly isn't looking for a
shoulder to cry on 



      
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