Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Motor City Christmas Card

[Erik Nielsen (judge4re]

One of the reasons you hear "our" politicians take the stand they are
taking is that we've demonstrated that we can build a region up after
a business model dies.  The textile industry crapped out, it was ugly,
but other industries figured out a model to keep going.  The hangover
from the party is going to be a nasty one.

On 12/14/08, clyderomero [at] worldnet.att.net <clyderomero [at] 
worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Bottom line is that the big 3 need to change there model
> That's it in a nut shell
> >From labor to cars front to back
> We build the best fighter planes in the world and everyone wants them but no
> one wants our cars!
>
> Clyde
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Lee S. Lingo" <LeesCars [at] comcast.net>
>
> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:38:08
> To: clyde<clyderomero [at] worldnet.att.net>
> Cc: 'The FerrariList'<ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Motor City Christmas Card
>
>
> Erik, unfortunately, that's exactly the mentality I'm speaking about.
> Everyone up North is not delusional.
>
> The Southern states have done a great job keeping jobs in their states and I
> applaud them for it.  Let's not overlook the amount of cash that they threw
> at the foreign automakers to settle down there.  I sincerely hope that the
> analysts are wrong, and that my gut is wrong.  But if I'm not, this will not
> benefit the foreign automakers or American jobs.
>
> Lee
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Erik Nielsen [mailto:judge4re [at] gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:39 PM
> To: Lee Lingo
> Cc: The FerrariList
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Motor City Christmas Card
>
> Take a look at the downgrades of their debt.  People started paying
> attention in 2005, when things overall were still booming.
>
> This is a problem that needs the reset button pushed, not more cash
> thrown at it.  The southern states are calling it like they see it,
> everyone up north is delusional...
>
> On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 12:19 PM, Rich <Rich355 [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>> A senator was citing  statistics at the hearings the other day , and this
>> one really was shocking.
>> I believe he cited that both Toyota and GM each sold 9 million vehicles
>> worldwide in 2007 . The big difference was Toyota made a profit of
> somewhere
>> in the $ 17  Billion range, while GM lost around $ 36 Billion.
>> Now trying to convinve anyone that GM  is losing money because the are not
>> selling enough cars is laughable at best .
>> Obviously there is a bigger culprit  in GM's losses than their car sales
>> numbers.
>>
>> Rich
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Thursby" <david [at] thethursbys.net>
>> To: "Rich" <rich355 [at] comcast.net>
>> Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:05 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Motor City Christmas Card
>>
>>
>>> Seconded.
>>>
>>> Steve Jenkins wrote:
>>>> As part-maker of the loan, I'm curious as to what is the collateral on
>>>> the
>>>> loan?
>>>>
>>>> I'm a fan of chapter 11 for the "big" three. It's doesn't mean they have
>>>> to
>>>> go out of business - it means they have to re-organize, they have
> greater
>>>> ability to strong-arm the unions (don't get me started on unions - they
>>>> were
>>>> necessary "back in the day" but have far outlived their necessity) and
>>>> they
>>>> can restructure some of their debt. Airlines who've done it (United,
>>>> Delta,
>>>> NWA) are all still alive and kicking. Of course, it didn't work for
> Aloha
>>>> Airlines - but staying in business is not the right of any organization,
>>>> it's a privilege afforded it by its customers.
>>>>
>>>> SJ
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Lee S. Lingo [mailto:LeesCars [at] comcast.net]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:25 AM
>>>> To: Steve Jenkins
>>>> Cc: 'The FerrariList'
>>>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Motor City Christmas Card
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, this has been floating around for a month or so.  It's unfortunate
>>>> that it plays to the stereotype that the "Southern Senators" are
>>>> claiming.
>>>> Sen.'s Bob Corker (TN), Mitch McConnell (KY), Jim Bunning (KY) and
>>>> Richard
>>>> Shelby (AL) are some of the more outspoken leaders of the anti-American
>>>> sentiment where it pertains to the automotive industry.
>>>>
>>>> I know that it's a lot of political posturing, but I find it
> unbelievable
>>>> that they are pushing out the US Auto makers and feel that they are in
> no
>>>> need of assistance just because they have some foreign auto
>>>> manufacturer's
>>>> in their state.  Those manufacturers, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and
>>>> Mercedes-Benz chose those locations because of intense lobbying by those
>>>> states and the subsidies in taxes and such.  Those five manufacturers
> all
>>>> use parts vendors that also provide parts to the US auto makers.  If one
>>>> or
>>>> more of the US auto makers go down, their inability to pay their vendors
>>>> will cause significant hardship, and most likely, closing of the vendors
>>>> at
>>>> least temporarily should sufficient credit be available which will in
>>>> turn
>>>> affect the foreign makers.  They're all tied together.
>>>>
>>>> And I'm sick to death of the term bailout being bandied back and forth.
>>>> It's a bridge loan...
>>>>
>>>> Sorry Charles, but this issue REALLY gets my goat.
>>>>
>>>> Lee
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Charles Perry [mailto:charles [at] carolina-sound.com]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:20 AM
>>>> To: Lee Lingo
>>>> Cc: The FerrariList
>>>> Subject: [Ferrari] Motor City Christmas Card
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Amusing, in a sad way...
>>>>
>>>> -- charles
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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