Ferrari Mailing List: Re: NFC: Here comes BO's 10 % US National Sales tax

(continued)

You wrote  <<many of our Neo-Con members think Bush was Jesus and could do 

no wrong. >>

IMO that's a *wild* mis-statement of the truth.  Don't know about the other 

fiscal conservatives on the list but Bush lost credibility with me around 

year 2.  It was not that bush was such a good President it was that the 

alternatives were so much, much worse.  Kinda like what we have now. 

McCain was a democratic empty suit, but compared to the plans & spending 

being put in place now he could have stumbled his way thru 4 years and not 

done the damage O is doing.

BTW, when obama decides all on this list are super wealthy and wants to take 

all that wealth away and give it to someone more deserving, we won't have to 

worry about staying on topic anymore - there won't be anyone around.

LarryT

https://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp
Free 1 year NRA membership to anyone interested!

----- Original Message ----- 

From: <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>

To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] NFC: Here comes BO's 10 % US National Sales tax

Careful, Mike....many of our Neo-Con members think Bush was Jesus and could 

do no wrong. To question anything happening (or not happening when it should 

have) in the past eight years amounts to Religious Heresy and National 

Treason. Even Rush says so, therefore it must be true. Senator Phil Gramm's 

contribution to the situation has already been forgotten.

Don't feed the bear. History will tell the real tale.

M

--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Mike Fleischer <themightytoe [at] gmail.com> wrote:

From: Mike Fleischer <themightytoe [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] NFC: Here comes BO's 10 % US National Sales tax
To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 5:07 PM

Well

If memory serves the housing bubble really took off after the internet
bubble burst.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_housing_bubble

Since the tech bubble popped in 2000... I think the housing bubble
really took off from there. Peaked in 2005 or 2006.

The lending practices that were so suspicious could have been regulated
better at any point in time, but really came into play with all the real
estate speculation that happened from I'd want to say around 2002
onwards. So yes bad laws initially, and questionable ethics on behalf
of lenders and appraisers also. But to say the last administration was
faultless? Really?

The only question I have is what is the next boom? It seems economic
conditions are still deteriorating and the last times the world economy
sank so badly the boom was from German bombs and artillery... When and
if that comes to pass again, I think none of us will be driving the
Ferrari on the weekend.

Mike

Brian E. Buxton wrote:

Clinton was in for 8 years as well. A lot of the people who shouldn't
have had home loans already had them for a while. Was Bush supposed
to evict them?

Brian

Mike Fleischer wrote:

So your saying if I buy a Ferrari and it needs a new waterpump, and I
do nothing about it for eight years and the motor blows up... Its
not remotely my fault?

I am starting to see the problem here...

Brian E. Buxton wrote:

All of this mess started with the housing market, which was a result
of legislation pushed through by Clinton. Bush just happened to be
in office when it all fell apart.

B

Rick wrote:

From: "Lee Lingo" <leescars [at] comcast.net>

Subject: RE: [Ferrari] NFC: Here comes BO's 10 % US National Sales tax

Rick,

Oh, please. Your posts are nothing more than you finding articles
that support your complaints. Big deal. Your candidate lost. Get
over it.

My candidate in the two previous elections won and look at the
state we're in now.

And besides, you're comment about BO using the situation to push
through his agenda is not news. If I'm not mistaken, Bush did the
same thing with the Patriot Act which many feels is the
single-most destructive piece of legislation ever in regards to
eliminating the civil liberties this country was founded on.

Stay on topic. Please.

Lee
=====================================================================================

Yeah that explains why BO is keeping almost all of Bush's patriot
Act legislation. Here are articles listing all those "
destructive" Bush policies that BO has suddenly decided are actualy
quite good to have, so we can have another 8 years free from
terrorist attacks in the US . Renditions, FISA Wiretaps, Gitmo
detainees, etc.
Read at your own peril.

Is Obama embracing Bush-Cheney terrorism policies?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/05/---johanna-neumanclick-here-for-automatic-twitter-alerts-on-every-ticket-item-or-follow-us-latimestot.html

Obama Administration Maintains Bush Legal Argument for Terrorist
Surveillance Secrecy

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/04/13/obama-administration-upholds-terrorist-surveillance-secrecy-rules/

Wednesday Feb. 18, 2009 05:59 EST
Charlie Savage on Obama's embrace of Bush/Cheney "terrorism policies
http://www.salon.com/src/pass/sitepass/spon/sitepass_website.html

Obama vindicating Bush on anti-terror policies

http://www.kansascity.com/273/story/1215525.html

Obama in Bush Clothing

By Charles Krauthammer

http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | "We were able to hold it off with
George Bush. The idea that we might find ourselves fighting with the
Obama administration over these powers is really stunning."
- Unnamed and dismayed human rights advocate, on legalizing
indefinite detention of alleged terrorists, the New York Times, May
21

If hypocrisy is the homage that vice pays to virtue, then the flip-
flops on previously denounced anti-terror measures are the homage that
Barack Obama pays to George Bush. Within 125 days, Obama has adopted
with only minor modifications huge swaths of the entire, allegedly
lawless Bush program.

The latest flip-flop is the restoration of military tribunals. During
the 2008 campaign, Obama denounced them repeatedly, calling them an
"enormous failure." Obama suspended them upon his swearing-in. Now
they're back.

Of course, Obama will never admit in word what he's doing in deed. As
in his rhetorically brilliant national-security speech yesterday
claiming to have undone Bush's moral travesties, the military
commissions flip-flop is accompanied by the usual Obama three-step:
(a) excoriate the Bush policy, (b) ostentatiously unveil cosmetic
changes, (c) adopt the Bush policy.

Cosmetic changes such as Obama's declaration that "we will give
detainees greater latitude in selecting their own counsel." Laughable.
High-toned liberal law firms are climbing over each other for the
frisson of representing these miscreants in court.

What about disallowing evidence received under coercive interrogation?
Hardly new, notes former prosecutor Andrew McCarthy. Under the
existing rules, military judges have that authority, and they
exercised it under the Bush administration to dismiss charges against
al-Qaeda operative Mohammed al-Qahtani on precisely those grounds.

On Guantanamo, it's Obama's fellow Democrats who have suddenly
discovered the wisdom of Bush's choice. In open rebellion against
Obama's pledge to shut it down, the Senate voted 90 to 6 to reject
appropriating a single penny until the president explains where he
intends to put the inmates. Sen. James Webb, the de facto Democratic
authority on national defense, wants the closing to be put on hold.
And on Tuesday, Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said, no
Gitmo inmates on American soil - not even in American jails.

That doesn't leave a lot of places. The home countries won't take
them. Europe is recalcitrant. Saint Helena needs refurbishing. Elba
didn't work out too well the first time. And Devil's Island is now a
tourist destination. Gitmo is starting to look good again.

Observers of all political stripes are stunned by how much of the Bush
national security agenda is being adopted by this new Democratic
government. JWR contributor Victor Davis Hanson offers a partial list:
"The Patriot Act, wiretaps, e-mail intercepts, military tribunals,
Predator drone attacks, Iraq (i.e., slowing the withdrawal),
Afghanistan (i.e., the surge) - and now Guantanamo."

Jack Goldsmith (The New Republic) adds: rendition - turning over
terrorists seized abroad to foreign countries; state secrets -
claiming them in court to quash legal proceedings on rendition and
other erstwhile barbarisms; and the denial of habeas corpus - to
detainees in Afghanistan's Bagram prison, indistinguishable logically
and morally from Guantanamo.

What does it all mean? Democratic hypocrisy and demagoguery? Sure, but
in Washington, opportunism and cynicism are hardly news.

There is something much larger at play - an undeniable, irresistible
national interest that, in the end, beyond the cheap politics, asserts
itself. The urgencies and necessities of the actual post-9/11 world,
as opposed to the fanciful world of the opposition politician, present
a rather narrow range of acceptable alternatives.

Among them: reviving the tradition of military tribunals, used
historically by George Washington, Andrew Jackson, Winfield Scott,
Abraham Lincoln, Arthur MacArthur and Franklin Roosevelt. And
inventing Guantanamo - accessible, secure, offshore and nicely
symbolic (the tradition of island exile for those outside the pale of
civilization is a venerable one) - a quite brilliant choice for the
placement of terrorists, some of whom, the Bush administration
immediately understood, would have to be detained without trial in a
war that could be endless.

The genius of democracy is that the rotation of power forces the
opposition to come to its senses when it takes over. When the new
guys, brought to power by popular will, then adopt the policies of the
old guys, a national consensus is forged and a new legitimacy
established.

That's happening before our eyes. The Bush policies in the war on
terror won't have to await vindication by historians. Obama is doing
it day by day. His denials mean nothing. Look at his deeds.

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Nationwide Enclosed Auto Transportation

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SO. IN Region PCA

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Re: NFC: Here comes BO's 10 % US National Sales tax	<– Date –> <– Thread –>
From: LarryT (l02turnercomcast.net)
Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 15:24:14 -0700 (PDT)