Ferrari Mailing List: Re: NY Times on frequency of oil changes

[Larry T (l02turner]

Hi Britt -

    The BMWs you mentioned are diesels, correct?  I don't believe BMW offers any diesels here - wish they did, I'd likely buy one or 2.   Love those diesels!

 

    I always heard the increase in oil change intervals was because the manufacturers wanted the appearance of needing less maintenance.

 

    As far as changing the filter only - I used to hear that the oil never wore out - just the filter got dirty and required changing - which is only partly true - the additives packages are depleted and need to be replenished.  

 

    I have one long distance trucker Oil Analysis customer who uses Amsoil and sometimes changes the filter only - but usually adds some make up oil along the way - which helps with the additives.  He goes to 12k-20k between oil filter changes.  He always has an oil analysis done when changing the oil, BTW.   Last I checked he had around 500K miles on it.

 

    His excellent experiences with Amsoil have made me consider going to Amsoil for my cars but when I looked at all aspects it appears all of the high quality fully synthetic oils will provide similar extended service.  The other benefits must be evaluated individually IMO.

 

There's an additional test that can be performed when the Oil Analysis is done - it's called TBN for Total Base Number and is an indication of the oils ability to neutralize the acids that are formed by the combustion process.  The number usually starts out around 12-15 when the oil is new and reduces to 0 as the oil ages.  As the number nears 2-5, it is recommended the oil be replaced to restart the TBN additives.  This is probably the best single indicator of an oils ability to go to extended change intervals.  We've performed this test for several customers and the numbers came back as needing fresh oil at 7500-9000 miles when using a quality oil like Mobil 1.  

 

A direct response to Britts question may also be the European market oils themselves may have higher TBN additives to start with.  I've been told this is true - haven't seem the evidence myself....

 

Back in the mid 90s, new MBs came with a oil change monitor - I believe there were sensors in the oil to determine when the oil needed to be changed - but the dash indicator was calling for the oil change at 15000-20000 miles and many owners refused to believe the oil could last that long - which is at least debatable.    Just like the "sealed" Auto Trannys which were said to never need a ATF replacement or even level checking - are now having changes done but I donât recall the details.

 

It's a complex question and certainly differs between manufacturers of engines, oils, filters, type of driving, age and condition of engine, driving environment, etc., etc.

 

What was the question again??

 

Take care -- YMMV

LarryT

The Oil Analysis Co.

 

 

"In God We Trust"

From: Britt2Asa [at] aol.com

Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 6:29 PM

To: Larry Turner

Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com

Subject: Re: [Ferrari] NY Times on frequency of oil changes

I guess they have different intervals for different markets. Naturally fuels here in Europe are different then fuels in the USA so maybe that has something to do with it. I had a complete engine failure in a 5 series a few years ago that had 50k miles on it. (valve snapped off) It was out of warranty but because the car was always serviced by my local BMW dealer they paid for the new engine out of good will with a little encouragement. That's was Â13k worth of new engine. The computer showed I had followed the onboard servicing requirements. We don't have Jiffy Lube over here. Wouldn't use them if we did. The English are really anal about having the service book fully stamped for every visit. Change your oil at home and you have a SEVERE effect on the resale value of your car. Don't have main dealer servicing stamped in the book and you may have trouble ever selling your car and certainly couldn't trade it in at a dealer for a decent price.

 

Regards

Britt

15,000 miles is the recommended oil change interval for BMW. Keep in mind these extended service intervals were put in place when the manufacturers needed to reduce the advertised cost of maintenance, or in BMW's case, they pay for all maintenance for 3 years. They will perform an oil change at 15,000 free of charge, but not before. Amazingly, the oil change interval went from 7,500 miles to 15,000 miles and the manual gearbox and differential oil change went from (if I recall correctly) 60,000 miles to lifetime, never change once BMW started to to pay for maintenence. Same lubricants magically last longer!

Carl

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Jeff Greenfield wrote:

 Britt â

 

I think itâs a little of both. The modern synthetic oils have improved, the mfrâs are pushing the service intervals because people donât want to have to bring their cars in for service often.

 

Most BMWâs and many other cars (VW/Audi comes to mind) have gone to full synthetic oil for the last 10 years or so. This helps to prolong the maintenance interval.

 

That being said, some mfrâs have had problems with oil sludging in their engines. VW/Audi had a service campaign where they were replacing long blocks well past the warranty period if the owner could prove that service (oil changes) were performed at the recommended intervals.

 

Several other makes were affected by this problem as well. I know Toyota was one, I donât recall the others.

 

I think the reality lies somewhere between the old school 3,000 miles, and the extended intervals that are being recommended. If you buy a new car and only plan to keep it 3-4 years or up to about 100,000 miles you will probably have no problems following either the mfrâs service schedule or the computer that tells you when it is time to change the oil.

 

But, if you plan to keep the car longer and expect it to make it to the 200,000 mile mark or beyond, I feel more frequent oil changes will help achieve that goal.

 

The BMW service indicator primarily keeps track of fuel consumed, and bases the interval on this. Figuring more fuel will be consumed in traffic, short trips, etc, and less on pure highway driving.

 

Also, most service schedules have a footnote regarding âsevereâ use. Although the word âsevereâ may not be the correct term, probably 80-90% of owners fall into this category which calls for more frequent oil changes.

 

Theoretically, they say you can go 15,000 miles between oil changes with synthetic. Personally I feel more comfortable with half that, but thatâs me.

 

 

 

From: Britt2Asa [at] aol.com [mailto:Britt2Asa [at] aol.com]

Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 11:25 AM

To: Jeff Greenfield

Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com

Subject: Re: [Ferrari] NY Times on frequency of oil changes

 

I find this quite interesting. I was working in the fleet business when I moved to the UK in 1995. Immediately Inoticed that cars here would require an oil change every 7500 miles while in the US at the time it was normal every 3000 miles. That slowly grew to be around 10k-12k miles or once a year by 2000. This was for the majority of cars here.

 

The blonde's 2002 BMW petrol engine had a computer that determined servicing. It lit the service light at around 12k miles. The car never used more than 1qt oil every 12k miles and after 100k miles was still perfect. She now has a 2003 3 series with the same engine and it has similar requirements.

 

My 530d BMW clicked on the service light at around 20,000 miles. My current new 320d just had its first service at 23,000 miles. I wonder what BMW requires in the USA regarding oil changes on these same engines?

 

Either the oil companies/service garages are lying about the need for frequent oil changes or the car manufacturers are pushing up the miles between oil changes to make their cars more appealing here in what is a very competitive market.

 

Britt

Interesting read.

Vty,

--Dennis

 

BR in the UK
1986 328GTS (LHD 89,940km) Died August 19, 2006 Shrewsbury UK
1980 400i (RHD 74,000 miles)
Searching for the right 512TR
1997 Fiat Barchetta
1985 Bertone X1/9
2003 BMW 530d
1991 Alfa Spider S4 LHD
1993 Alfa Spider S4 LHD
2010 BMW 320d

---

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