lateral
in excess of 1G is pretty impressive for road cars.... as are
all the other numbers of course, that one just made my
attention level increase -
"The catastrophic engine
failures tend to arrive (at least in the small block
of the C6) once the engine is put to task, but I
believe these are predictable and preventable design
mistakes."
It surely depends on what the task is.
Le Mans victories, a slow lap during a car club
track day, backing into a parking spot at Cars and
Coffee, etc.
Always question data integrity!
And when you think you have the best data, question
it again. Question the sources!
If the sources aren't physically building the car
and setting it up for race use, then take their
mechanical "failures" with a grain of salt.
Who built the motor? What was done to prep the car?
Was it warmed up properly? Was the correct fluid
used? Was it cooled off properly? Was it broken in?
Was the correct lubricant used for the track, track
temp and state of tune? Was the ECU remapped
incorrectly? Was it modified improperly? Was it set
up for the intended use?
When you combine this lack of preparation and
understanding with car abuse and mainstream media
outlets, you get invalid and flawed conclusions.
There are only rare moments in the car magazines or
online that are worth the disk space they consume.
When a seasoned pro racer takes the wheel, the real
story comes out. And a lot of it reflects reality
because they don't usually have allegiances to a
particular marque.
Beyond firsthand involvement, one has to look to
documented world class achievements. Porsche has an
amazing racing record with their air cooled motors
and modern GT variants. We all know that the later
water cooled motors were not designed properly but
the earlier 930 based engine has been pretty good.
Corvette has been a dominant force at Le Mans for
the last 15 yrs.
I would say that your quandary of 930 based 911 GT3
(even without a clutch pedal) and the Corvette for
long term reliability is probably the only valid one
out there. I would not want to put any other
manufacturers into that gamble...
And, I am not really interested in either...just
cannot ignore reality.
They are both winning marques in world class
competition and both closely related to their
production counterparts. So, if there are big
mechanical failuers with these Le Mans winners, it's
likely due to the end user.
Please let us know about your GT3...should be quite
a piece of hardware.
The acceptance or
criticism of an enthusiast car is
surely a study of human psychology
along the spectrum of hero worship
to group hypnosis or mass hysteria
... somewhere in there.
While I've had a very
lucky run, knock on good oil
pressure, with 911's for nearly 30
years, and we proudly extol the
qualities of our 125K mile, zero
defect Prius, I can't say the same
for Fud or GM at all. Though I did
have a modified, supercharged, 400hp
Chevy Tahoe that proved itself over
100K+ miles of towing and general
duties.
Yes, they all have
their weaknesses and shortcomings,
but I come from an E-Type Jaguar
background, so I might have rather
less demanding expectations than
your average 911 driver. : )
As for the Stingray,
the failures have revolved around
the car being delivered to the
customer with zero fluids in the
transaxle. The catastrophic engine
failures tend to arrive (at least in
the small block of the C6) once the
engine is put to task, but I believe
these are predictable and
preventable design mistakes. The
new LT1 is said to address all known
failures of the venerable LS series
engines of the Corvettes prior to
2014 model year. Who knows? I'm
just dismayed to see that GM has
chosen to put "world class" (and
acclaimed) paint quality on its
economy cars while neglecting to
address panel fit and paint quality
on its flagship.) I fear these
early adopter Vette devotees will be
holding the unloved model year and
it might be 2015 before "the good
ones" are written into the Wiki
pages of Corvette history. Now the
Z06 variant is known to be arriving
by year end and we're coming into
"car show" season, I'm happy to
wait. Plus, <gleeful smile>
my GT3 gets built this month and
arrives next month, just in time for
ideal norcal track season weather! :
)
If flat tires, garage
door opener programming,
wheel alignment and paint
issues are the first
problems to come to mind on
a brand new $49k first year
production car, then a
readjustment of reference
may be needed.
Is there any mention of
catastrophic engine
failures?
If not, then it is
already better engineered
and built than 75% of its
competitors. I imagined
substituting four
"engineering" brands for
"C7" in the thread and it
would have complimented
them.
Rather than rely on
internet threads, I will
wait until I can physically
inspect one and see one all
apart myself.
The Vette cabin may have
beeen low rent, but so were
the competitors. Could
anyone care to explain a
996TT interior? It reminded
me of the materials used in
a 1992 Chevy Cavalier. A
person could've died from
toxic melting plastic fumes
on a hot summer day. And, if
I remember correctly, that
was not a budget minded
production car.
That one problem alone is
worth 500 pages of whining
on an internet forum. They
could not figure out how to
keep an interior from
melting in direct sunlight?
Did these same engineers
also design the SMG
masterpiece for BMW? Or the
IMS for Porsche? Or the
VANOS mess? The GTR diff?
I personally could be
happy with a random Japanese
beater and a collection of
vintage dinosaurs. I have no
real interest in buying a
modern Vette, BMW, Ford,
Porsche or Audi.
Having said that, why isn't
the same criteria used to
evaluate all of these cars?
I
have a couple of
closet Corvette
friends, mostly
using them as
stripper track
cars -- the 505hp
C6 Z06 is a
helluva lot of car
for the money and
with some minor
and well-known
upgrades, can be a
very reliable
track car for half
the price of a
good 911 GT3
setup, and peanuts
compared to a
Scuderia or
Challenge
Stradale. I had
ordered the C7
Stingray with
exactly that game
plan in mind: a
thoroughly modern
Millicent makeover
but still the
"analog" of modern
sports cars
compared to the
all electronic
Porsche and
Ferraris -- a
third pedal and
just a smart diff
to put the power
down. But the
cabin is still low
rent and the
mid-life crisis
image meant it
would be a track
car only. I
appreciate and
respect the 60
year history of
the Corvette -- I
consider it the
only car deserving
of mention in the
same sentence as
the 911 in terms
of racing pedigree
of a single type
vehicle. I also
think of it, as a
visitor to the
USA, as a "when in
Rome" driving
experience. Not
that I'll drive a
Yugo if I go to
Russia ...
Once
the quality
problems became
evident, I just
have no interest
in the roll of the
dice on paint
quality or the
time sink of
visits to have the
dealer finish
building the car.
If I'm going to
have an unreliable
money pit and time
sink of a car,
it's going to be
an Italian
thoroughbred,
dammit!
I haven't
heard a peep
about the
build quality
problems on
the C7. Then
again I have
seen only one
on the street
so far.
This is very
unlike the
"recent" GM as
the
engineering
and build
quality of the
C5 and C6 have
put their
European
counterparts
to shame.
All of my
exotic car
buddies
secretly own
Vettes as
their track
cars and they
actually are
bulletproof.
98 Coupe, '12
Grand Sport,
'08 Z06 and a
'99
Coupe...all
are also
Ferrari and/or
Lambo owners.
Everybody has
a "reliable"
car story.
Vettes might
be the closest
to functional
perfection out
there right
now.
Lightweight,
maintenance
free, ultra
reliable,
30mpg hwy,
incredible
track
performance,
superb racing
pedigree,
trunk space,
easy to drive,
no
maintenance,
no repairs, no
maintenance,
no repairs,
sound,
sound...
I just CANNOT
see myself
ever owning a
Vette.
Not sure
why...maybe
they are just
too good and
devoid of any
character???
I
think that
advertisement
is a
bait-n-switch
(a common
practice in
these markets
and something
frequently
noted in
corvetteforum
C7 discussion)
and it
reflects the
loss of
interest in
the "old"
Corvette at
the same time
as the "new"
Corvette has
really screwed
the sales
pooch because
of atrocious
build quality
production
problems, so
GM is in a bit
of a void of
their own
making till
they reinvent
their Corvette
factory
(mostly by
sacking
incompetent
union
pay-check
recipients, in
my humble.) I
ordered the
C7, but found
it impossible
to go ahead
with the car
till they
solve all
kinds of
production
issues
(neglecting to
add fluids to
the transaxle,
hand touch-ups
to paint
blemishes,
runs in the
paint, grossly
excessive
"orange peel"
from incorrect
curing
processing,
misalignment
of body
panels,
incorrect
operation the
hatch release,
malfunctioning
electronics
and dash
instrumentation,
mediocre
leather and
stitching,
misaligned and
ill-fitting
cabin trim
from design,
thumb sized
cabin trim
gaps around
the doors,
just to
mention the
more common
examples that
lead to me
pulling the
plug and
waiting, and
hoping that GM
gets their A
into G for the
Z06 version at
the end of
2014.)
Ditto
- IMO the
original
headlights (as
in Lotus) look
better but I
know they feel
it necessary
to update
things to
attract new
buyers...
still a great
daily driver.
Sincerely,
Larry
On
1/3/2014 10:19
PM, Robert W.
Garven Jr.
wrote:
I
know your
joking but the
miata is one
of the best
sports cars
still out
there, perfect
for my wife
and then I get
to drive it.
The new one is
more manly, I
cant image a
better
handling car
except for the
lotus
for twice
the money.
This car even
has a decent
trunk,
unfortunately
no spare! The
top has only 3
pieces and is
a marvel of
japanese
efficiency! It
will turn on a
dime....
"The
Ferrari is a
dream - people
dream of
owning this
special
vehicle and
for most
people it will
remain a dream
apart from for
those lucky
few." Enzo
Ferrari
On Jan 2,
2014, at 10:08
PM, LS wrote:
I
see nothing in
your pic
except for a
sexy red
machine...SORRY!
"The
Ferrari is a
dream - people
dream of
owning this
special
vehicle and
for most
people it will
remain a dream
apart from for
those lucky
few." Enzo
Ferrari
On Jan 2,
2014, at 3:30
PM, LS wrote:
What
would you guys
get?
The wife needs
something
somewhat
interesting
for three days
a week.
1. $40-45k
1a. At
least mid 20s
MPG Hwy
1b. Low
Maintenance
and Zero
Repairs
1c. 4
seats and a
decent trunk
2. High
Performance
3. Manual
trans
4. Great
engine sound
5.
Interesting...
comcast.net)