Re: Brass era cars
From: Erik Nielsen (judge4regmail.com)
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 04:53:42 -0700 (PDT)
Just wait until automated cars are perfected…


On Mar 24, 2016, at 6:17 AM, John Ashburne via Ferrari <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> wrote:

What is disturbing about both of these stories is the not so subtle implications that the people in the Duesey somehow were partially at fault because their 1929 car didn't have seatbelts. 

There also is an underlying tone that these older cars should not be allowed on the roads with modern cars because other drivers expect that the older cars can steer, stop and handle as well as modern cars. The implication that the next step is even more restrictions on older cars is ominous, such as retrofitting safety devices or banning use on public roads. 

Deaths while driving vintage cars are exceedingly rare even considering the low miles that they are driven. 

This is not an area where more restrictive laws are needed. 

John

Sent from my ATT Bell Rotary Dial Phone

On Mar 24, 2016, at 1:15 AM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

I remembered this story...



Peter



From: Ferrari <ferrari-bounces+dino308gt4=hotmail.com [at] ferrarilist.com> on behalf of Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com>
Sent: March 23, 2016 10:09 AM
To: PeterGT4
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Brass era cars
 
For those with longer memories...

Crash Involving 1929 Duesenberg Claims 3 Lives
By OLIVIA MUNOZ, Associated Press Writer Tue Aug 2, 3:52 PM ET

DETROIT - At a time when thousands of Americans were standing in bread lines, the luxury automobile of the day, the Duesenberg, sold for more than $15,000. The car — miles ahead of the typical $500 family car of the day — weighed more than three tons and was bigger than a modern Suburban.

But like many pre-World War II cars, Duesenbergs were made without one of the basic safety features mandatory on modern cars: seat belts.

And that might have contributed to the deaths over the weekend of a mother, father and their 8-year-old son. Police say a 2001 Volvo ran a stop sign near Ann Arbor and struck their newly restored 1929 Duesenberg while they were out for a drive near their home.

The family of five was thrown from the car, and the two other children were injured. The driver of the Volvo was not injured and could face charges.

The Duesenberg, like many vintage cars, is nearly impossible to bring up to current crash safety standards. And many classic-car owners believe that trying to do so would spoil a vehicle's authenticity.

Federal law holds cars only to the standards that were in effect at the time of the vehicle's manufacture. But many states have come up with their own regulations for classic cars, and often prohibit their use for routine transportation.

"When you're driving to a show, the guy in the modern car thinks you can start, stop and maneuver just the same as he can. But if you have an open car and it flips over, you're in big trouble," said Chuck Conrad, president of the Des Plaines, Ill.-based Classic Car Club of America.

Crashes — especially fatal ones — involving classic cars are rare because the owners are so cautious with them, said Matt Short, executive vice president of the Auburn Cord Duesenberg Museum in Auburn, Ind.

Owners do most of their driving to and from classic-car shows, conventions and parades. The typical mileage for collector cars is usually less than 1,000 a year, according to McKeel Hagerty, chief executive of Hagerty Collector Car & Boat Insurance in Traverse City. His company is one of the biggest classic-car insurers in the country, with 300,000 clients.

Hagerty said he cannot remember a fatal crash in a vintage car in the 22 years he has been in business. Only 0.2 percent of his customers in any given year file claims over collisions with other cars, he said.

Seat belts were introduced on cars in the early 1960s. In 1968, the federal government made them mandatory. But there is no federal requirement to add them to cars that did not come with them.

And with vehicles built before the 1930s, "you just can't retrofit many of these cars. They will never meet any modern crash test criteria for safety," said Eron Shosteck, spokesman for the Washington, D.C.-based Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers.

After all, Conrad said, "Bolting yourself down to a 70-year-old piece of wood isn't really going to stop anything."

Most states, including Michigan, New York and California, let classic car owners register their vehicles with a "vintage" license, but with restrictions.

In Virginia, a classic-car owner can obtain a standard registration that allows the vehicle to be used like any other model as long as it meets current safety standards for such things as brakes, headlights, turn signals, tires and seat belts. Or, the owner can obtain a vintage license that limits its use to car club events, parades and exhibits as well as occasional pleasure driving no more than 250 miles from home.

In New York, cars registered as historic vehicles are prohibited from day-to-day use, such as commuting to work. In Maryland, registrants must attest that they will not transport people in the cars on highways. And in Alabama, classic car owners can be fined and stripped of their vintage-vehicle registrations for driving their classic cars other than for a show or a parade.

Crash involving 1929 Duesenberg leaves 3 dead near Ann Arbor

August 1, 2005, 1:32 AM

SUPERIOR TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) -- A driver apparently ran a stop sign at an intersection near Ann Arbor and collided with a classic car carrying a family of five, killing two parents and a child, authorities say.

The other two children in the 1929 Duesenberg convertible were injured in crash, which happened about 8:10 p.m. EDT Saturday in Superior Township, the Washtenaw County sheriff's office said in a statement Sunday.

The driver of the Duesenberg recently had finished three years of work, along with father, restoring it for its owner, a Bloomfield Hills resident, the Detroit Free Press said. The car was worth an estimated $1.5 million.

All five from the Superior Township family were thrown from the vehicle, which did not have seat belts. The two children who survived were taken to the C.S. Mott Children's Hospital at the University of Michigan.

"The accident probably wouldn't have turned out like this (if they) wore seat belts," sheriff's Cmdr. David Egeler told The Detroit News.

Dead at the scene of the crash were driver Bradley M. Patton, 35; his wife, Kristin Patton, 35; and their son, Nathan, 8, the sheriff's department said; injured were Emily, 7; and Taylor, 9.

Emily and Taylor originally were listed in serious condition. Later Sunday, Emily was upgraded to fair condition and Taylor to good condition.

A 2001 Volvo was turning southbound when it collided with the Duesenberg, which was headed eastbound. The Duesenberg rolled several times. Video of the crash scene showed the car resting upright, with debris strewn along the roadway.

A 25-year-old Ann Arbor man who was driving the Volvo was unhurt in the crash. He was arrested and taken to the Washtenaw County jail, where he was released pending possible charges from prosecutors.

Egeler said the man could face negligent homicide charges, but that determination would be made by the Washtenaw County prosecutor's office after the sheriff's department completes its investigation.

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 10:52 AM, Fellippe Galletta <fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com> wrote:
And here people worry about a modern car with no airbag. :)

I kid, I kid....but it does show you the perspective.

I feel that if I drove any car with no airbag I would be slightly more risk averse in my driving, but not a whole lot. It would imply I drive recklessly to begin with which is silly. 

I wager that an airbag is there to separate life and death from a very bad accident that the driver probably has fault in -- acts of god and deliberate kamikaze from other drivers are beyond the pay grade of any passive restraint system, IMHO. 

And we're talking about a recreational sports car, not a daily driver. 

On one end of the spectrum you had guys going 10/10ths in death traps and surviving and at the other end you have kids killing themselves in modern cars. 

Gotta weigh it all in and take it from there. Every moment you drive with a nice airbag-less wheel is pleasure derived. :)

But don't take this as formal life safety advice from me, per Dr. Nielsen. 

FG

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 6:55 AM, John Ashburne via Ferrari <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> wrote:
Not only that, with brakes totally inadequate for even the modest speed capability of the cars and an open seating position up high that almost guaranteed ejection of driver and passengers in even a minor crash, it took brass balls to be a motorist in those days!  😉

John

Sent from my ATT Bell Rotary Dial Phone

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 1:14 AM, "Craig Williamson" <da-rolls [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Clyde,
>
> Early 20th century cars when most fixtures were made from brass e.g. headlights etc.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <ferrari-request [at] ferrarilist.com>
> To: "Skip" <da-rolls [at] comcast.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2016 6:03 AM
> Subject: Ferrari Digest, Vol 116, Issue 35
>
>
>> Send Ferrari mailing list submissions to
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>  1. Re: General Ferrari/exotic market cycle (clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com)
>>  2. Re: General Ferrari/exotic market cycle (Erik Nielsen)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 06:56:05 -0400
>> From: clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com
>> To: Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com>
>> Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] General Ferrari/exotic market cycle
>> Message-ID: <EA196720-F134-4FA2-8713-D4E239BB3A09 [at] gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Ok
>> I give up
>> What's a brass era car?
>>
>> In victory you deserve Champagne
>> In defeat you need it!
>>
>>
>>
>> Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
>>
>> If you follow all the rules
>> You miss all the fun!
>>
>> If you have no enemies, you have no character !
>>
>> Clyde Romero
>>
>>
>> Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.
>> This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyde.romerof4 [at] gmail.com or  by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.
>>
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 1:16 AM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Eventually, you'll run out of old guys who want to buy them...
>>>
>>>
>>> Like Erik said, see the prices of brass-era cars?
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Ferrari <ferrari-bounces+dino308gt4=hotmail.com [at] ferrarilist.com> on behalf of clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com>
>>> Sent: March 20, 2016 3:15 PM
>>> To: PeterGT4
>>> Cc: The FerrariList
>>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] General Ferrari/exotic market cycle
>>>
>>> The 30 year old now crowd  doesnt care about old stuff
>>> New money doesn't either
>>> Just look at the age of who's wining all those bullshit concours across the entire spectrum
>>> And worse yet look who's buying the old muscle car shit at the high end auctions
>>> No one from the dot comm SFO crowd is buying into that shit either
>>> Even the yang car GTR Nissan is struggling with sales with then tattoo pierced nose crowd !
>>> The Jay Leneos of the world have destroyed the market with there wealth
>>> I would love for his garage to burn to the ground with no loss of life
>>> Yes I am hating here but it's guys like him that alter market forces to the average joe so that he or she could no longer afford the car they lusted after
>>> That's where the old man Ferrari was right back in the day
>>> He sold the car to those who deserved it !
>>> Because you had the money didn't mean you had the car !
>>>
>>> Like Erik said
>>> We could be talking about golf !
>>> Ugh what a waste that would be
>>>
>>>
>>> In victory you deserve Champagne
>>> In defeat you need it!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
>>>
>>> If you follow all the rules
>>> You miss all the fun!
>>>
>>> If you have no enemies, you have no character !
>>>
>>> Clyde Romero
>>>
>>>
>>> Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.
>>> This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyde.romerof4 [at] gmail.com or  by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.
>>>
>>>> On Mar 20, 2016, at 1:31 PM, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 30 years from now, most of the ?expensive? cars from the 60?s will come back to reality, those that remember them in the day and lusted after them will be dead.  Look what happened to brass era cars.   Even pre-war cars have a very limited following, unless they still have a standing class at major concours events.
>>>>
>>>> Things will also get more automated, maybe you will not be able to drive an analog machine on a  road with a bunch of self driving boxes.  I?m expecting to see the big cities in Europe move to electric only vehicles in the next decade and a half, ?obsolete? cars will be forced off the road in major metropolitan areas.
>>>>
>>>> Then it becomes an issue of getting spares.  3d printing should help, but with no spares widely available (through lack of demand), more of these things will fall further down the deferred maintenance slope, never to recover.
>>>>
>>>> There is no such thing as cheap, all of these cars require proper feeding and watering, and there are only so many people that want to get into the hobby.  Especially when you consider the quality of what is available new for less coin.
>>>>
>>>> Technology and competition keep moving the needle, the new stuff is amazing, but I?m not sure how sustainable they will be.  Highly doubt a shade tree mechanic will be able to afford to keep something with ceramic brakes going.
>>>>
>>>> True petrol heads could give a rat?s ass about resale prices; screw the speculators buying stuff they don?t understand.  If the tax regime changes (and don?t think it is just fans watching the prices), I?m guessing more and more of this stuff will end up hidden in farms...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My uncle has a country place
>>>> That no one knows about
>>>> He says it used to be a farm
>>>> Before the Motor Law
>>>> And now on Sundays I elude the eyes
>>>> And hop the turbine freight
>>>> To far outside the wire where my
>>>> White-haired uncle waits
>>>>
>>>> Jump to the ground as the turbo slows
>>>> To cross the borderline
>>>> Run like the wind as excitement shivers
>>>> Up and down my spine
>>>> But down in his barn
>>>> My uncle preserved for me
>>>> An old machine
>>>> For fifty-odd years
>>>> To keep it as new
>>>> Has been his dearest dream
>>>>
>>>> I strip away the old debris
>>>> That hides a shining car
>>>> A brilliant Red Barchetta
>>>> From a better vanished time
>>>> We'll fire up the willing engine
>>>> Responding with a roar
>>>> Tires spitting gravel
>>>> I commit my weekly crime
>>>>
>>>> Wind
>>>> In my hair
>>>> Shifting and drifting
>>>> Mechanical music
>>>> Adrenaline surge
>>>>
>>>> Well-oiled leather
>>>> Hot metal and oil
>>>> The scented country air
>>>>
>>>> Sunlight on chrome
>>>> The blur of the landscape
>>>> Every nerve aware
>>>>
>>>> Suddenly ahead of me
>>>> Across the mountainside
>>>> A gleaming alloy air-car
>>>> Shoots towards me two lanes wide
>>>> Oh, I spin around with shrieking tires
>>>> To run the deadly race
>>>> Go screaming through the valley
>>>> As another joins the chase
>>>>
>>>> Ride like the wind
>>>> Straining the limits
>>>> Of machine and man
>>>> Laughing out loud with fear and hope
>>>> I've got a desperate plan
>>>>
>>>> At the one-lane bridge
>>>> I leave the giants stranded
>>>> At the riverside
>>>> Race back to the farm
>>>> To dream with my uncle
>>>> At the fireside
>>>>
>>>> But I suppose it could be worse, we could be talking about golf.
>>>>
>>>> Erik
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 20, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Fellippe Galletta <fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Talking to a friend about the Ferrari market and he asked if there was any cheap ones left. "Cheap" defined I guess as under $50-60k, or
>>>>>
>>>>> I replied that the Dino 308 GT/4, Mondial, and maybe the 348 are left....if that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I recalled that the late '80s had $100k 308s, and everything else was equally expensive -- we're not even BACK to that price level, and inflation means $100k 308s in '88 were a lot more, still.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back in our college days ('97-'01), I recall Daytonas were low $100s, Countach 400S was around $50k, Testarossa a bit more than that, Dinos were probably $70k. Boxers were hovering around low 100s.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe the best one was that F40s and 288 GTOs were around $250-300k. So if that stabilized for a long time, mere mortals could have one. Now? hmmm.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you guys think in 5 or 10 years (or 20. 30), prices will re-stabilize to something normal?
>>>>>
>>>>> Another interesting thing to consider is the almost unanimous universal movement of markets and perhaps the changing perception of certain cars based on their price.
>>>>>
>>>>> For instance, are Countachs that much cooler now that nobody can afford them? Are Testarossas really worth that much when you couldn't give them away 8 years ago?
>>>>>
>>>>> Back when the 355 was still being made, I saw a black Daytona coupe pull up in front of a restaurant and got all excited. I made the crazy statement that I would take one over a 355. Now it seems like a "duh" sorta thing. But not back then.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've noticed that even the generic enthusiast is starting to get it regarding these newer exotics. You used to have to tell them why the older cars were special and they'd laugh at you. Now they're the ones spewing it like it's only a recent discovery.
>>>>>
>>>>> Were we ahead of our time? Haha.
>>>>>
>>>>> :)
>>>>>
>>>>> FG
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>>>>> http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/judge4re%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
>>>>> and F1 Headlines
>>>>> http://www.F1Headlines.com/
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>>>> http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/clyderomerof4%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
>>>> and F1 Headlines
>>>> http://www.F1Headlines.com/
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 06:03:53 -0500
>> From: Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com>
>> To: clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com
>> Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] General Ferrari/exotic market cycle
>> Message-ID: <21E41795-FF96-46CA-86D5-CED8DC0DFCF6 [at] gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> 1896-1915. Basically pre WWI.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 5:56 AM, clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok
>>> I give up
>>> What's a brass era car?
>>>
>>> In victory you deserve Champagne
>>> In defeat you need it!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
>>>
>>> If you follow all the rules
>>> You miss all the fun!
>>>
>>> If you have no enemies, you have no character !
>>>
>>> Clyde Romero
>>>
>>>
>>> Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.
>>> This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyde.romerof4 [at] gmail.com or  by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.
>>>
>>>> On Mar 22, 2016, at 1:16 AM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Eventually, you'll run out of old guys who want to buy them...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Like Erik said, see the prices of brass-era cars?
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Ferrari <ferrari-bounces+dino308gt4=hotmail.com [at] ferrarilist.com> on behalf of clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: March 20, 2016 3:15 PM
>>>> To: PeterGT4
>>>> Cc: The FerrariList
>>>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] General Ferrari/exotic market cycle
>>>>
>>>> The 30 year old now crowd  doesnt care about old stuff
>>>> New money doesn't either
>>>> Just look at the age of who's wining all those bullshit concours across the entire spectrum
>>>> And worse yet look who's buying the old muscle car shit at the high end auctions
>>>> No one from the dot comm SFO crowd is buying into that shit either
>>>> Even the yang car GTR Nissan is struggling with sales with then tattoo pierced nose crowd !
>>>> The Jay Leneos of the world have destroyed the market with there wealth
>>>> I would love for his garage to burn to the ground with no loss of life
>>>> Yes I am hating here but it's guys like him that alter market forces to the average joe so that he or she could no longer afford the car they lusted after
>>>> That's where the old man Ferrari was right back in the day
>>>> He sold the car to those who deserved it !
>>>> Because you had the money didn't mean you had the car !
>>>>
>>>> Like Erik said
>>>> We could be talking about golf !
>>>> Ugh what a waste that would be
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In victory you deserve Champagne
>>>> In defeat you need it!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
>>>>
>>>> If you follow all the rules
>>>> You miss all the fun!
>>>>
>>>> If you have no enemies, you have no character !
>>>>
>>>> Clyde Romero
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.
>>>> This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyde.romerof4 [at] gmail.com or  by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.
>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 20, 2016, at 1:31 PM, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 30 years from now, most of the ?expensive? cars from the 60?s will come back to reality, those that remember them in the day and lusted after them will be dead.  Look what happened to brass era cars.   Even pre-war cars have a very limited following, unless they still have a standing class at major concours events.
>>>>>
>>>>> Things will also get more automated, maybe you will not be able to drive an analog machine on a  road with a bunch of self driving boxes. I?m expecting to see the big cities in Europe move to electric only vehicles in the next decade and a half, ?obsolete? cars will be forced off the road in major metropolitan areas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then it becomes an issue of getting spares.  3d printing should help, but with no spares widely available (through lack of demand), more of these things will fall further down the deferred maintenance slope, never to recover.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no such thing as cheap, all of these cars require proper feeding and watering, and there are only so many people that want to get into the hobby.  Especially when you consider the quality of what is available new for less coin.
>>>>>
>>>>> Technology and competition keep moving the needle, the new stuff is amazing, but I?m not sure how sustainable they will be.  Highly doubt a shade tree mechanic will be able to afford to keep something with ceramic brakes going.
>>>>>
>>>>> True petrol heads could give a rat?s ass about resale prices; screw the speculators buying stuff they don?t understand.  If the tax regime changes (and don?t think it is just fans watching the prices), I?m guessing more and more of this stuff will end up hidden in farms...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My uncle has a country place
>>>>> That no one knows about
>>>>> He says it used to be a farm
>>>>> Before the Motor Law
>>>>> And now on Sundays I elude the eyes
>>>>> And hop the turbine freight
>>>>> To far outside the wire where my
>>>>> White-haired uncle waits
>>>>>
>>>>> Jump to the ground as the turbo slows
>>>>> To cross the borderline
>>>>> Run like the wind as excitement shivers
>>>>> Up and down my spine
>>>>> But down in his barn
>>>>> My uncle preserved for me
>>>>> An old machine
>>>>> For fifty-odd years
>>>>> To keep it as new
>>>>> Has been his dearest dream
>>>>>
>>>>> I strip away the old debris
>>>>> That hides a shining car
>>>>> A brilliant Red Barchetta
>>>>> From a better vanished time
>>>>> We'll fire up the willing engine
>>>>> Responding with a roar
>>>>> Tires spitting gravel
>>>>> I commit my weekly crime
>>>>>
>>>>> Wind
>>>>> In my hair
>>>>> Shifting and drifting
>>>>> Mechanical music
>>>>> Adrenaline surge
>>>>>
>>>>> Well-oiled leather
>>>>> Hot metal and oil
>>>>> The scented country air
>>>>>
>>>>> Sunlight on chrome
>>>>> The blur of the landscape
>>>>> Every nerve aware
>>>>>
>>>>> Suddenly ahead of me
>>>>> Across the mountainside
>>>>> A gleaming alloy air-car
>>>>> Shoots towards me two lanes wide
>>>>> Oh, I spin around with shrieking tires
>>>>> To run the deadly race
>>>>> Go screaming through the valley
>>>>> As another joins the chase
>>>>>
>>>>> Ride like the wind
>>>>> Straining the limits
>>>>> Of machine and man
>>>>> Laughing out loud with fear and hope
>>>>> I've got a desperate plan
>>>>>
>>>>> At the one-lane bridge
>>>>> I leave the giants stranded
>>>>> At the riverside
>>>>> Race back to the farm
>>>>> To dream with my uncle
>>>>> At the fireside
>>>>>
>>>>> But I suppose it could be worse, we could be talking about golf.
>>>>>
>>>>> Erik
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 20, 2016, at 11:41 AM, Fellippe Galletta <fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Talking to a friend about the Ferrari market and he asked if there was any cheap ones left. "Cheap" defined I guess as under $50-60k, or
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I replied that the Dino 308 GT/4, Mondial, and maybe the 348 are left....if that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I recalled that the late '80s had $100k 308s, and everything else was equally expensive -- we're not even BACK to that price level, and inflation means $100k 308s in '88 were a lot more, still.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Back in our college days ('97-'01), I recall Daytonas were low $100s, Countach 400S was around $50k, Testarossa a bit more than that, Dinos were probably $70k. Boxers were hovering around low 100s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe the best one was that F40s and 288 GTOs were around $250-300k. So if that stabilized for a long time, mere mortals could have one. Now? hmmm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you guys think in 5 or 10 years (or 20. 30), prices will re-stabilize to something normal?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another interesting thing to consider is the almost unanimous universal movement of markets and perhaps the changing perception of certain cars based on their price.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For instance, are Countachs that much cooler now that nobody can afford them? Are Testarossas really worth that much when you couldn't give them away 8 years ago?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Back when the 355 was still being made, I saw a black Daytona coupe pull up in front of a restaurant and got all excited. I made the crazy statement that I would take one over a 355. Now it seems like a "duh" sorta thing. But not back then.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've noticed that even the generic enthusiast is starting to get it regarding these newer exotics. You used to have to tell them why the older cars were special and they'd laugh at you. Now they're the ones spewing it like it's only a recent discovery.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Were we ahead of our time? Haha.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FG
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