Listen guys here is the long and the short of it Even if you buy a new fuse box it doesn't fix the problem The problem is the instantaneous 25 amp draw thru the fuse box pins That connect the cooling fans and the a/c fans The pins can't handle it That's why you install the relay to get the load away from the fuse box So the best course of action is to get the relays installed before you have an issue Wishing all best of luck But please get it done It's just a matter of time before you have a SPACE SHUTTLE Challenger event! In victory you deserve Champagne In defeat you need it!
Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
If you follow all the rules You miss all the fun!
If you have no enemies, you have no character !
Clyde Romero
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Haven’t been closely following this thread but these old photos of a hand
wired attempted fix/abomination from 5-7 years back, caught my eye. You can’t be
serious that it went commercial. I would suggest if you want a proper fix
to the printed circuit board fuse/relay panel problem, that is the only fix
which I would approve is Dave Helms’. Scuderia Ram pante
http://scuderiarampante.com/sri-fuse-boxes/ p
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 512 radiators
Hey cLyDe,
Did you take a look at the link I included in my message to you? That
supplier did list all of the cars it's used on. 328/Mondial, 348/Mondial,
400/412, F40, TR/512TR. This link shows two views, front and back and the back
view is telling:
|
|
Ferrari
328 GTB / GTS and GTB Turbo Ferrari Mondial 8, QV, 3.2 and T Ferrari 400
and 412 Ferrari F40 Ferrari Testarossa, TR and
512TR |
Notice how most of the tracers are simply soldered wires. Not a whole lot to
carry the currents mentioned. Would be better to eliminate the connections
through the board and go directly to the harness connector.
In addition to installing updated fuse boxes, I am planning to re-do the
connectors as well. Inside the car, at the fuse box (located in the glove box in
a 308 GT4), the connectors aren't too bad looking, but I don't trust them. I'll
strip back to nice shiny copper (if I have enough length of wire to do so) and
crimp on new blade connectors. A more critical area is at the devices - rad fan
harnesses, headlight harnesses, other light harnesses. They show signs of
corrosion. Not just simply at the connections, where male and female connect,
but the crimps to the wire itself. Green dust = bad. The corrosion bumps up
resistance and that resistance bumps up current.
I see this all the time on the commercial vehicles I work on. Being exposed
to the elements, if the connection isn't treated with some kind-of protection,
the corrosion just builds and builds. Terrible when people run ring-terminal
grounds onto bare aluminum... "Get'r done and outta the shop!" Ferrari did what
it did to save time and money. These boards locate everything in one place and
it's quick to assemble on the line. They could care less about longevity. As
long as it lasts past the warranty, keep cranking them out.
Another issue is contact pressure of the connectors. More prominent with the
harnesses using small-gauge wire, like the AMP connectors going to ECUs/etc.
This is the case with those shitty fuse boxes used in the older 308s, the
buss-bar rivets linking rows of fuses lose pressure. Mine were terribly loose
and no wonder why my rad fan circuits were melting too. Immediate temperature
drop when I soldered them to the buss bars (and the fuse prongs to the rivets).
Another thing I don't trust.
Ahhh, old cars... <OutlookEmoji-??.png> At least repairs and mods are
reasonable. All of these new cars scare the shit out of me and I won't touch
them when they're older. NLA ECUs, 9 million wires criss-crossing through the
car, etc. Forget it.
Peter
Here is the key in my opinion
Get a head of it now
Do not wait
These cars are all 20 plus years old and I have
103k on my car
And had not had a problem up until recently
As many services as I have performed on my car
if I had known about this earlier I would
Have done the mod years ago
But I drive my car and everything worked so why mess
with success right ?
The fuse box on the TR is robust
It's the multi pin connection which connects to the
fuse box which trips the fans and the a/c fans that are the issue
Those wires are like the lead wired on a slot
car!
So thin !
And they have to handle 25 amps at start up
This is Apollo 11 all over again
I mean really for a car that cost $250k to have an
electronic set up like this insane
A 1993 anything that had a fan had a better set up
than this
Will have a detailed write up on what color wires to
use etc in a later post
In victory you deserve Champagne
In defeat you need it!
Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
If you follow all the rules
You miss all the fun!
If you have no enemies, you have no character !
Clyde Romero
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e-mail at Clyde.romerof4 [at] gmail.com
or by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and
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This is well-documented on Ferrarichat and other forums. The TR series,
328s/Mondials and other later cars used printed circuit boards to house fuse
and relays in one neat location... As you and many others found, over time,
it's just not substantial enough to handle these heavy loads.
In my quest to update my fuse boxes in the 308 (avoiding Birdman's
glass-tube style, as I don't really like the appearance and lack of plastic
covers), I came across a modular system offered from Littelfuse which I think
could be developed to replace the printed circuit boards.
You can get OEM boards. I'm not sure if they're NOS or repro, but here's an
example from Italian supplier, Auto Ricambi D'Epoca:
http://www.autoepoca.it/portfolio/fuserelay-board-assembly-testarossa-124089/
The Littelfuse system I mentioned is kind-of like a set of Lego blocks; you
pick the fuse and relay blocks and then interlock them into whatever assembly
you want. It is meant for commercial vehicle and other custom vehicle
applications, but I don't see why it couldn't be used to replace original fuse
boxes.
Keep in mind, I DON'T OWN A TR YET! I have no idea if there is enough
clearance to allow such an assembly to be installed in the stock location (in
the front storage area, behind the spare tire I believe?...). Nor, am I aware
if someone does offer an upgrade kit, or rebuilds original boards. Download
the Littelfuse catalog here (PDF file):
http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/commercial-vehicle/datasheets/automotive-fuse-holders/powr-blok-modules-datasheet.pdf
I came up with something trick for my 308 GT4. I have yet to install it
permanently but initial testing seems to work well (using modern, ATC style
fuses). Not the above-mentioned POWR-BLOK modules, but another type (from
Hella).
When it comes down to it, I'm sure fresh electrical connectors and
corrosion-preventative compound/grease will help any original set-up (to a
certain extent).
I'm glad to hear cLyDe your rads are in and everything is in tip-top
shape.
Peter
Ok
its done
But
here is the rest of the story
It
wasn’t the fans
When
I installed new fans one did not work
It
was the fuse box that had burned a wire to the fan and caused that fan
to not work, even when I checked the continuity of the circuit
If
you own a TR or a 512 TR you need to do the relay in line set up on your fans
and air-conditioner at the fuse box
The
condenser fans are a 25 amp draw as well which caused the same issue
The
pin connector into the fuse box for the a/c was severely burned as well
I
had severe heat damage where the pins inserted to the fuse box and
luckily got out alive
It
didn’t not destroy the fuse box which in now longer available
The
fans are 25 AMP draw at start up and put an enormous load on that fuse box
with regards to heat.
The
fuse box pins cannot take the heat
You
need to install relays in line
Now
the new radiators are great
They
are aluminum and lighter and cool down substantiality faster than the stock
units
Fans
stay on 30 sec cool down the car and turn off
Something
that never happened in the past
In
any case those of you who have a TR or a 512 need to do the relay installation
or you will eventually have a major problem in your fuse box
I
was lucky
If
any of you have questions email me
I
imagine this is the same issues that a 355 or 348 or any Ferrari that utilizes
fans to cool radiators since the symptoms are the same with regards to the
fuse box
I
have pictures for those who want them to show them of the burnt pins from the
excessive draw that the fans and A/C draw
Bottom
line is that this will happen to you, if it hasn’t happened to you already and
you just don’t know it
If
one of your fans dies don’t replace the fan
Check
the pins into the fuse box and I can guarantee you it will be a pin failure
Clyde
with the new radiators and relays
CLYDE
In victory you
deserve Champagne
In defeat you
need it!
![http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d50199eadaa3846040c76511e/images/Screen_shot_2013_05_29_at_9.18.02_AM.png]() <image001.gif>
<image002.jpg>
Scars are
tattoos with better stories!
Clyde
Romero
Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com
678
6419932
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