Jokes aside, if any relays are installed, make sure they're clearly labelled and properly run. Use the appropriate size gauge wire (refer to this chart for length/gauge:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/amps-wire-gauge-d_730.html ). As I've mentioned before, I've seen too many butcher jobs done and too many rat's nests!
|
www.engineeringtoolbox.com
Amps and Wire Gauge - 12V Circuit Maximum current - amps - through a 12V circuit - related to size (AWG) and length of wire
|
Peter
From: Ferrari <ferrari-bounces+dino308gt4=hotmail.com [at] ferrarilist.com> on behalf of scott saidel <scott_saidel [at] hotmail.com>
Sent: November 6, 2016 9:11 AM
To: PeterGT4
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] PCB Fuse Blocks
In a word - a cLyDe word - "shitbox". Laughing so hard I peed myself a little at my own stupid joke.
Sent from my iPhone
Listen guys here is the long and the short of it
Even if you buy a new fuse box it doesn't fix the problem
The problem is the instantaneous 25 amp draw thru the fuse box pins
That connect the cooling fans and the a/c fans
The pins can't handle it
That's why you install the relay to get the load away from the fuse box
So the best course of action is to get the relays installed before you have an issue
Wishing all best of luck
But please get it done
It's just a matter of time before you have a SPACE SHUTTLE Challenger event!
In victory you deserve Champagne
In defeat you need it!
Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
If you follow all the rules
You miss all the fun!
If you have no enemies, you have no character !
Clyde Romero
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain
confidential or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.
This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us
by reply e-mail at Clyde.romerof4 [at] gmail.com or by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.
Haven’t been closely following this thread but these old photos of a hand wired attempted fix/abomination from 5-7 years back, caught my eye. You can’t be serious that it went commercial. I would suggest if you want a proper fix to the printed circuit
board fuse/relay panel problem, that is the only fix which I would approve is Dave Helms’. Scuderia Ram pante
http://scuderiarampante.com/sri-fuse-boxes/ p
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 512 radiators
Hey cLyDe,
Did you take a look at the link I included in my message to you? That supplier did list all of the cars it's used on. 328/Mondial, 348/Mondial, 400/412, F40, TR/512TR. This link shows two views, front and back and the back view is telling:
|
|
Ferrari 328 GTB / GTS and GTB Turbo Ferrari Mondial 8, QV, 3.2 and T Ferrari 400 and 412 Ferrari F40 Ferrari Testarossa, TR and 512TR
|
Notice how most of the tracers are simply soldered wires. Not a whole lot to carry the currents mentioned. Would be better to eliminate the connections through the board and go directly to the harness connector.
In addition to installing updated fuse boxes, I am planning to re-do the connectors as well. Inside the car, at the fuse box (located in the glove box in a 308 GT4), the connectors aren't too bad looking, but I don't trust them. I'll strip back to nice shiny
copper (if I have enough length of wire to do so) and crimp on new blade connectors. A more critical area is at the devices - rad fan harnesses, headlight harnesses, other light harnesses. They show signs of corrosion. Not just simply at the connections, where
male and female connect, but the crimps to the wire itself. Green dust = bad. The corrosion bumps up resistance and that resistance bumps up current.
I see this all the time on the commercial vehicles I work on. Being exposed to the elements, if the connection isn't treated with some kind-of protection, the corrosion just builds and builds. Terrible when people run ring-terminal grounds onto bare aluminum...
"Get'r done and outta the shop!" Ferrari did what it did to save time and money. These boards locate everything in one place and it's quick to assemble on the line. They could care less about longevity. As long as it lasts past the warranty, keep cranking
them out.
Another issue is contact pressure of the connectors. More prominent with the harnesses using small-gauge wire, like the AMP connectors going to ECUs/etc. This is the case with those shitty fuse boxes used in the older 308s, the buss-bar rivets linking rows
of fuses lose pressure. Mine were terribly loose and no wonder why my rad fan circuits were melting too. Immediate temperature drop when I soldered them to the buss bars (and the fuse prongs to the rivets). Another thing I don't trust.
Ahhh, old cars... <OutlookEmoji-??.png> At least repairs and mods are reasonable. All of these new cars scare the shit out of me and I won't touch them when they're older. NLA ECUs, 9 million wires criss-crossing through the car, etc. Forget it.
Peter
Here is the key in my opinion
Get a head of it now
Do not wait
These cars are all 20 plus years old and I have 103k on my car
And had not had a problem up until recently
As many services as I have performed on my car if I had known about this earlier I would
Have done the mod years ago
But I drive my car and everything worked so why mess with success right ?
The fuse box on the TR is robust
It's the multi pin connection which connects to the fuse box which trips the fans and the a/c fans that are the issue
Those wires are like the lead wired on a slot car!
So thin !
And they have to handle 25 amps at start up
This is Apollo 11 all over again
I mean really for a car that cost $250k to have an electronic set up like this insane
A 1993 anything that had a fan had a better set up than this
Will have a detailed write up on what color wires to use etc in a later post
In victory you deserve Champagne
In defeat you need it!
Scars are Tattoos with better stories !
If you follow all the rules
You miss all the fun!
If you have no enemies, you have no character !
Clyde Romero
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential
or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.
This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged. If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply
e-mail at Clyde.romerof4 [at] gmail.com or by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.
This is well-documented on Ferrarichat and other forums. The TR series, 328s/Mondials and other later cars used printed circuit boards to house fuse and relays in one neat location... As you and many others found, over time, it's just not substantial enough
to handle these heavy loads.
In my quest to update my fuse boxes in the 308 (avoiding Birdman's glass-tube style, as I don't really like the appearance and lack of plastic covers), I came across a modular system offered from Littelfuse which I think could be developed to replace the
printed circuit boards.
You can get OEM boards. I'm not sure if they're NOS or repro, but here's an example from Italian supplier, Auto Ricambi D'Epoca:
http://www.autoepoca.it/portfolio/fuserelay-board-assembly-testarossa-124089/
The Littelfuse system I mentioned is kind-of like a set of Lego blocks; you pick the fuse and relay blocks and then interlock them into whatever assembly you want. It is meant for commercial vehicle and other custom vehicle applications, but I don't see
why it couldn't be used to replace original fuse boxes.
Keep in mind, I DON'T OWN A TR YET! I have no idea if there is enough clearance to allow such an assembly to be installed in the stock location (in the front storage area, behind the spare tire I believe?...). Nor, am I aware if someone does offer an upgrade
kit, or rebuilds original boards. Download the Littelfuse catalog here (PDF file):
http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/commercial-vehicle/datasheets/automotive-fuse-holders/powr-blok-modules-datasheet.pdf
I came up with something trick for my 308 GT4. I have yet to install it permanently but initial testing seems to work well (using modern, ATC style fuses). Not the above-mentioned POWR-BLOK modules, but another type (from Hella).
When it comes down to it, I'm sure fresh electrical connectors and corrosion-preventative compound/grease will help any original set-up (to a certain extent).
I'm glad to hear cLyDe your rads are in and everything is in tip-top shape.
Peter
Ok its done
But here is the rest of the story
It wasn’t the fans
When I installed new fans one did not work
It was the fuse box that had burned a wire to the fan and caused that fan to not work, even when I checked the continuity of the circuit
If you own a TR or a 512 TR you need to do the relay in line set up on your fans and air-conditioner at the fuse box
The condenser fans are a 25 amp draw as well which caused the same issue
The pin connector into the fuse box for the a/c was severely burned as well
I had severe heat damage where the pins inserted to the fuse box and luckily got out alive
It didn’t not destroy the fuse box which in now longer available
The fans are 25 AMP draw at start up and put an enormous load on that fuse box with regards to heat.
The fuse box pins cannot take the heat
You need to install relays in line
Now the new radiators are great
They are aluminum and lighter and cool down substantiality faster than the stock units
Fans stay on 30 sec cool down the car and turn off
Something that never happened in the past
In any case those of you who have a TR or a 512 need to do the relay installation or you will eventually have a major problem in your fuse box
I was lucky
If any of you have questions email me
I imagine this is the same issues that a 355 or 348 or any Ferrari that utilizes fans to cool radiators since the symptoms are the same with regards to the fuse box
I have pictures for those who want them to show them of the burnt pins from the excessive draw that the fans and A/C draw
Bottom line is that this will happen to you, if it hasn’t happened to you already and you just don’t know it
If one of your fans dies don’t replace the fan
Check the pins into the fuse box and I can guarantee you it will be a pin failure
Clyde with the new radiators and relays
CLYDE
In victory you deserve Champagne
In defeat you need it!
![http://gallery.mailchimp.com/d50199eadaa3846040c76511e/images/Screen_shot_2013_05_29_at_9.18.02_AM.png]() <image001.gif>
<image002.jpg>
Scars are tattoos with better stories!
Clyde Romero
Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com
678 6419932
Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy
Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution
is prohibited.
_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/pbennett%40paul-bennett.com
Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
and F1 Headlines
http://www.F1Headlines.com/
|
hotmail.com)