Ferrari Mailing List: Re: GM products, was: Re: 1978 GTS Rear Brake Caliper question

[Luke Graves (buyer1]



Two of them!  A real car guy!!!  If you are ever in Austin, please look me up.  I will have to tell you the story of how I watched Fangio win Sebring in a big Monza 860 in "56!

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From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+buyer1=airmail.net [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of scott saidel
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2017 4:45 PM
To: Col Luke Graves
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] GM products, was: Re: 1978 GTS Rear Brake Caliper question

You can't tell the playas without a program.  

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 30, 2017, at 4:02 PM, Charles Perry <charles [at] carolina-sound.com> wrote:

Ha! Valid question. Yes, I have a ‘98 F355 spider and an ’87 Testarossa. Love them, of course, but also have a diverse interest in sports cars. I find things to appreciate about all of them, as well as things I would slap their respective engineers for.   J

From: Luke Graves [mailto:buyer1 [at] airmail.net]
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 11:07 PM
To: Charles Perry
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: RE: [Ferrari] GM products, was: Re: 1978 GTS Rear Brake Caliper question

So, do you have a Ferrari?

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From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+buyer1=airmail.net [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Charles Perry
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 4:24 PM
To: Col Luke Graves
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] GM products, was: Re: 1978 GTS Rear Brake Caliper question

That was an ugly time for GM engineering AND build. Every interior fastener in my 85 Corvette is an exposed screw, or an 8mm hex head bolt. Everywhere one of those goes in, the hole is slotted. If you go over a speed bump you can watch the whole dash twist back and forth and most of them now have had their mounting ears and tabs snapped off from the motion, so you can’t make it a quiet car again. I can strip the entire interior out of that car in 2 hours, which I used to do regularly when I was building competition stereos for it. I could cut that to an hour if I didn’t care about noting which screws went back where.

If you park it on an incline with the targa top off, you can’t put the targa top back on because the car literally folds so much.

But despite all that, I do love the car. I had great years in it and it was a beast of a performer for its time. The Z51 suspension that mine has was built to win SCCA events in unmodified classes. It will tear your kidneys out on a cobblestone road, but as a flexible teenager I adored it. Some years back our own Michael Scallion worked his magic on the motor and with built internals and a Procharger supercharger kit, my motor could make 600hp. The brakes and chassis aren’t up to that, so it sits at about 450 right now, and even that’s scary in that chassis. Still, it’s a great looking car 30+ years later and I still enjoy it. Long live COPBAIT!  J

From: George [mailto:ygpz4re [at] hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 6:40 AM
To: Charles Perry
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: GM products, was: Re: 1978 GTS Rear Brake Caliper question

And the door panel was really just an example of what I perceive (rightly or wrongly) to be shoddy workmanship on GM's part.  I mean, if a 30+ year old *Triumph* (possibly the cheapest of all cheap *BRITISH* sports cars) can keep its door panels securely in place, why can't GM's flagship sports car??  Where else have they cut corners to build to a price?  What else will just fall apart?  And as you point out Charles - this particular problem was after the rework....

So, if my wife ever did talk me into  buying her a Chevy (not very likely), I might like it initially, but would be ever wary of when things will just start to break.  Her former Monte Carlo not withstanding (that was a good and very nice, comfy - and quick! - car).

FWIW, YMMV, yadda yadda...

gp

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From: Charles Perry <charles [at] carolina-sound.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 10:50 AM
To: George
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: RE: GM products, was: Re: 1978 GTS Rear Brake Caliper question

I will concede you that fact, George. My C4 Corvette (1985 Z51) has possibly the worst POS door panels of any car ever built, and I am including my neighbor’s amateur race cars which include a lot of old real estate signs and pallets as structural components. Even the aftermarket replacement C4 door panels make a Papa John’s pizza look rigid, and even including additional aftermarket brackets they still pop off the door structure every time you close the door. Without question: Worst. Car part. Ever.

And your friend’s 96 was AFTER they had an interior re-work to update the C4 from mine.

I had considered trying to fab my own from fiberglass, but I am currently derailed by the car’s need for new fuel pumps.

From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+charles=carolina-sound.com [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of George
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:05 AM
To: Charles Perry
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: [Ferrari] GM products, was: Re: 1978 GTS Rear Brake Caliper question

I find Charles' comments interesting, but won't let my wife read them (she's a Chevy gal from way back).  She's constantly PO'd that I won't buy her a Chevy, even though her old Monte Carlo Z34 (1998 MY) was still in great shape and going strong at 204K miles when we sold it a decade or so back.

To me, Chevy has always been a maker of pretty darn good engines - but the rest of the car sucked.  A very good friend has a '96 'Vette with a great LT4 engine, but also with a floppy inner driver's side door panel.  Even my former POS Triumph Spitfire (RIP), at almost *20 YEARS* older than the 'Vette, didn't have a floppy door panel.  WTF Chevy???

So I'm curious to see how Charles' CTS-V holds up over time, WRT build quality.  I suspect the engine will be like the energizer bunny....

And in that vein, I'll be happy to hear of *UNRESTORED* examples of vintage GM products that are as good as the day they first rolled out of the showroom.  I'll start - her Monte Carlo was darn close, even the leather upholstery was just broken in (almost 10 years and, as mentioned above, 204K miles).  Wondering if that's the exception or now the rule?

But as long as she uses *MY* good credit to buy a car, I still get a say in what that car is.  😉

gp

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From: Charles Perry <charles [at] carolina-sound.com>

I find it surprisingly hard to argue. I never in my life thought I?d want a Camaro, but the ZL1 1LE is absolutely a phenomenally developed car all around and I?d love to have one as a track car.

Felt the same way a couple of years ago ? would never have pictured owning a Cadillac, but my CTS-V 6MT wagon has been huge fun and nearly zero trouble.

It will be years before my track driving talent matches the capabilities of our C7 Z06 Corvette.

GM praise always used to be preceded by the phrase ?For the money?? but that?s just not the case anymore. World class in everything except maybe interior materials, and they?re just not far enough off to dissuade me from GM any more.

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