Ferrari Mailing List: Re: FORD v FERRARI | Official Trailer [HD] | 20th Century FOX

[Rick Moseley (ramosel]

Prof Doug: Porsche 101

Great class, how many more parts?

On Wednesday, September 18, 2019, 2:29:46 PM PDT, Doug & Terri <dnt [at] dock.net> wrote:

Lash ponders “Why Porsche could not figure that (aero flow) out is a mystery.

 

The mid 1960’s as far as extreme levels of aerodynamic design for Porsche goes was a mystery.  Not only for their 917 race car but for the next generation street cars 911 as well.  But why not the 912 whose shape was exactly similar to the 911?  Three reasons: 1) the engine being only 4 cylinders was more amidships; 2) the 911 engine weighs as much as a Chevy small block motor; and, 2) the 912 4 cyl didn’t go that fast.  However the 911S was a period rocket.  180 hp and 140 mph top speed.  And that’s the day aero school opened – the front end was floating and steering became probable. 

 

The 1968 cure was to place two 25 lb. steel weights inside and at each corner of the front bumper.  Maybe earlier 911’s too.

 

By 1969, the steel weights were out and without changing the 911 body style too much, the float problem was mastered.  By stretching the wheel base 2¼” while leaving the powertrain in the same location and placing the batteries ahead of the front wheels in the trunk space in wings.  All 1969 912’s and 911’s were built the same way.  However the 912 had only one batter, a group 42 placed in the left wing while the 911’s split the batteries and placed one 12v in each wing.  That sufficed until 1974 and the introduction of the 5 mph bumper.

 

From the mid-seventies time period to the mid 1980’s Porsche made massive leaps and bounds not only with the 917’s but with the street cars too.  Most notably the 930,  934 and 935 turbos.  The 935 with a top speed in excess of 210 mph as a street car and for the race car, the 962’s top speed in exceeded  250 mph.  Ergo the chicanes at Lemans and elsewhere.

 

Early on, in the development of the 917, one major flaw was discovered – green brake pad gassing.  This is when a new set of brake pads are placed on the car when an aggressive application is applied, such as the end of the Mulsanne Straight, the pad binder agents gas and keep the pad away from the disk – by an atom or two.  Bummer.  Cause the death of John Wolfe at Lemans on the first lap.  The answer was to break in the brake pads, let them settle down and brake them in again.  Later, the 917’s drilled the front disks BUT not for cooling – for lightness.  It was soon discovered the holes wiped the gassing problem and soon all competition cars drilled the rotors – more effectively, cut wiping groove in the disk.

 

And that is briefly the story of aerodynamics in the late 60’s and early 80’s.  A great book on how to build a race car to the rule book is “Porsche racing cars of the 70s” by Paul Frere.  About $20 USD from Abebooks.com   (no affiliation)

 

Cheers

Doug  

 

 

 

 

From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+dnt=dock.net [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Lashdeep Singh via Ferrari
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2019 9:04 AM
To: DOUG <dnt [at] dock.net>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] FORD v FERRARI | Official Trailer [HD] | 20th Century FOX

 

The 917 was a legend and changed the way a lot of racing was undertaken.

 

The old school legends were happy to win in 917s but they are not shy about commenting on how flawed they were. Redman, Follmer, etc. will admit the cars were scary and dangerous with woefully inadequate aerodynamic testing and development.

 

John Wyer fixed the early cars with changes to bodywork and airflow.

 

Why Porsche could not figure that out is a mystery.

 

PS-GT40s did beat the 917s at LM in ‘69.

On Sep 16, 2019, at 11:47, Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:

As my dear friend (here) who actually worked for/with the German teams just called to remind... err... uh... correct me the Audi R15 did tie the laps record in 2010.  It took motorsports 40 years to overcome what was done in 1970.  But he was also quick to point out that the best the GT40 ever did hardly lasted 4 years.

 

On Monday, September 16, 2019, 8:21:29 AM PDT, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

And for us youngsters, there is the Audi/Bentley/Audi run that all but mandated German as the official language of the track...

 

On Mon, Sep 16, 2019, 10:07 AM Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:

C'mon guys... the GT40 vs Ferrari years (66-69) Ken Miles blah blah blah... is an OK run.  But for my money, just watch McQueen's Le Mans.  Nothing sounds like a 917K at full song and nothing has come close (except another damn P car) to 397 laps and 5300+ miles.  The 917K was more than a car, more than a race car... in the hands of Helmut Marko it was a weapon that Porsche assaulted the French countryside with.

 

On Monday, September 16, 2019, 7:42:14 AM PDT, Doug & Terri <dnt [at] dock.net> wrote:

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMzgeEWqXPQ

 

Ford GT40 presented by Ferodo brakes YouTube 30 minute Leman 1968 nostalgic piece of history.

Nothing like a bunch of Weber’s on song – eh?

Cheers

Doug

 

From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+dnt=dock.net [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Erik Nielsen
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2019 9:26 AM
To: DOUG <dnt [at] dock.net>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] FORD v FERRARI | Official Trailer [HD] | 20th Century FOX

 

Probably as accurate as Once Upon a Time in Hollywood...

 

At least that movie was funny.

 

On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 11:01 AM George <ygpz4re [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

I think this will be good - can't remember the last time I saw a good comedy.

 

gp

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