Re: Aviation is self cleansing
From: Clarence Romero Jr. (clyderomerof4gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2021 14:36:11 -0800 (PST)
Well said Rick 
Another good one was told to me be one of my instructors


As you’re going up the rails of an ejection seat 
That’s not the time to say 
Did I miss something! 



Clyde Romero

If you have no enemies
You have no character ! 

Scars are tattoos with better stories!
When you're out of F-4's you're out of fighters!







On Nov 14, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:


Peter,
Like others, you are focused on the end, not the beginning.

We don't know the pilots made mistakes... or that MH370 was intentional, or a mechanic screwed up or missed something, or a designer missed something, or the builder screwed up, or...  and it doesn't matter, what's done is done.   The statement is after the fact.

But aviation (as a non-sentient concept, if that helps) found a weakness and exploited it.  Whether it be man, machine or procedure... Those involved either couldn't or didn't intervene correctly.  By exploiting a <insert modality> weakness, aviation has corrected an error in its realm.   Often those corrections are harsh.   That is all Clyde is saying.... all that I'm saying.  No passing any judgement, not claiming to be better than anyone, just that Aviation has removed a weak link in it's chain.  Again.  Not for the last time.

Anthony,
Some refer to such mishaps as "An act of God", "Mother Nature", or just cold hard physics.
Accepting that "Some" are correct, would you say God is judgemental?  Mother Nature has an Ego?  Physics is cocky?
Or, are we just shooting the messenger?

And the TLDR:
I have found through the years that many equate flying to be just driving in the sky.   It is not.  But until you have been on the other side of that equation, you may not accept that.     

Food for thought. Like driving a Ferrari, flying a plane is a glorious experience.  When your Ferrari runs out of gas... it begins to slow in the X axis.  But you are on the ground.  If you have power steering, turning the wheel may get harder but it works, same with power brakes.   99% of the time, the driver pulls to the side of the road by moving in the Y axis and stops.  All you have to deal with is the long walk to gas station and perhaps a bit of humiliation from all the jokers laughing at Ferrari-boy-done-fucked-up, maybe some rain.  There is no relevant Z axis.

In a plane, if you run out of gas both X and Y are also in play.  But you now have Z to contend with...  Z is controlled by gravity and you have no say in it's presence or power. You have little or no recourse other than to trade some of your X for more Z.  More Z also means more time to enact a solution.   Unfortunately, you only have to air to pull to the side of... and that doesn't work.  You need a road or something similar to a road to accomplish your Y and deal with your ever diminishing Z. You need to be able to travel to that road.  Not so easy if you're over mountainous terrain, tall city buildings, homes with families in them or in my case...  hundreds of miles of water.   This is all compounded (in a jet) by your control surfaces be EXTREMELY hard if not impossible (fly by wire) to operate.  Most commercial and military aircraft have something akin to power steering and brakes, but it operates on 3000psi hydraulics.  No fuel - no engine. No engine - no 3000psi hydraulic pump.    There are methods to overcome this situation and survive, but you better have trained for it and trained well and be ready to act in a heartbeat... It may involve a trip in a parachute,  or killing hundreds of passengers.  Yes, you've got gauges but you have multiple tanks and transfer pumps to worry about, contend with.  Your backup is to always be mindful of your speed and fuel consumption and kinda know how many pounds of fuel you still "think" you have on board, that you can get too, if you can get to it.  Does what is in your head, jive with the gauges.  When you get back to the boat, do you have enough for a few go arounds?  It's important, you are trusted with millions of dollars of taxpayer assets, the life of the guy sitting behind you. Most personally, the North Atlantic is F'ing cold water, you don't want to ditch or have to punch out.

And this is just for something as simple as running out of gas.

Think about it the next time the gas gauge in your Ferrari shows low...  if it is even working.  What if your next fill up means life or death before you get home or to work?

Aviation:  A quote from one of my early instructors as I was standing on the flight-line watching a fellow student up in the air.

"It is always better to be down here wishing you were up there than it is to be up there wishing you were down here."


On Sunday, November 14, 2021, 12:42:43 AM PST, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:


After reading many of these posts, even when removing emotion from it, the choice of wording does come across as an improper way of presenting the situation.

 

To cleanse is “...a process or period of time during which a person attempts to rid the body of substances regarded as toxic or unhealthy...”. Stating aviation is self-cleansing is a way of saying these pilots made an *intentional* massive mistake(s) which cost them their lives. Or, to put in another way, admitting to their cockiness, taking inappropriate actions and removing themselves from life because of it. The act of self-cleansing in this manner is suicide.

 

Why can it not be said that X pilots made X mistakes and it resulted in a crash? As an example, you have this incident and you have, for instance, Malaysian Airlines MH370. Both are crashes, one an accident, one intentional.

 

Peter  

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

 

From: Rick Moseley
Sent: November 13, 2021 7:21 PM
To: PeterGT4
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Aviation is self cleansing

 

You imagined judgement.  

I assure you.  None was offered by Clyde.  He hasn't the time, want or need for it.

 

You are still missed the point.

You are concentrating on the cleansing and not aviation.

 

On Saturday, November 13, 2021, 07:05:51 PM PST, Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

I didn't catch it live but that was another spectacular sight.

 

On the other stuff, I get it.  Don't confuse observation and awareness with emotion.  I have had plenty of the latter so I know the difference, even in myself.  I saw judgment.  All judgment is based in ego.  It is a validation of identity.  Perhaps you are a spiritual man.  The very first lesson in the Bible is "Eat not the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil".  It is a stark warning against dualistic thinking and judgment.  So much so that it is considered the original sin.  It got Adam and Eve cast out of the Garden of Eden.  But you and I know this was just a story.  So what did the Garden of Eden really represent?  Peace.

 

So being aware of ego is not emotional.  We all have one.  It was critical to human survival.  But holding onto that identity as if it was the totality of one's existence absolutely leads to suffering.  For the record, I am not at all implying that you, personally, are holding on particularly tight to an identity.  But while you may not be, consider the possibility that you also might not be in tune to those who are.  My wife's grandfather landed at Normandy and fought his way to Germany.  He received multiple medals for what he did.  He was a good guy and we got along great.  We shared a lot of interests that, literally, no one else in his family did.  I can tell you, he suffered.  I like to think the many hours I spent at their house distracted his mind to happier topics and allowed him to be at peace.   I watched him as he went through the process of dieing.  He was able to do so at peace.  I watched others die who didn't.  The difference, I think, was that some were able to let go of most of their baggage and just be.

 

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