Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Rob's Timing Belt Parts Mystery

[Peter Rychel (dino308gt4]

I’ve been fascinated with 3D printing since it came out. I think if I was a kid now, I’d have a blast. Despite having just the basic blocks, playing with Lego taught me so much about how to be creative, dexterous and imaginative. With 3D printing, I would’ve been in another universe.

 

I know you’re so well-versed in this, but, when I look at basic 3D printing, I see the limitless potential as a tool for prototyping and to a certain extent, limited production. I also see it’s natural use in being the master for casting molds.

 

What I have a problem understanding is how some people are making items directly out of metal and using it in physical applications. I think Jay Leno was 3D printing engine parts (I believe some critical). What filler material is being used that makes this possible? Obviously the metal is in power form and the plastic carrier has certain properties to be used as such, but just how durable/strong could it be?

 

Many years ago, my Dad had a reputation for gluing everything together. He had started his career working with chemicals in labs, before moving on to photography (even more use of chemicals!), but his fondness for binding anything and everything together with glues/epoxies are legendary in our family. My memories include success and, lots of failure. I suppose in ways, it’s the failures that stick out in my mind and I can’t help but equate that with today’s “metal 3D printing”. Is it advanced to the point where it can be substituted for actual metal castings?

 

I chose welding as a career because I was always fascinated with how a person could take two pieces of metal and join them by melting them together. I’ve been doing this for almost 30 years and it still blows my mind – the process and my ability to do so. Dad could do brazing, but was very limited to the size of the object. When I became a welder, and he had items that broke, It was my absolute honor to weld it back together for him.

 

Peter

 

P.S. I don’t want to hijack Rob’s thread, but I’ve made tools for Rob before and I welded them so this counts as on topic 😉

 

P.S.S. Rob, did you ever get the timing belts sorted out? Did you get 101s?

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

 

From: Erik Nielsen
Sent: November 29, 2021 4:31 AM
To: Peter Rychel
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Rob's Timing Belt Parts Mystery

 

If you want to have real fun, join some of the ASTM discussions on standards for additive manufacturing.  We’re printing on the ISS…

On Nov 28, 2021, at 10:48 PM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:



Yes, it’s true. They may have taken influence from the “Polimotor” experiments with phenolics in the late ‘70s:

 

https://historicmotorsportcentral.com/2014/07/21/polimotor-plastic-and-racing-engine/

 

I have that Popular Science article somewhere...

 

If you doubt plastic, I have my doubts about using powdered metal in connecting rods (I still can’t wrap my head around that one).

 

Peter

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

 

From: Anthony Bauco
Sent: November 28, 2021 2:51 PM
To: PeterGT4
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Rob's Timing Belt Parts Mystery

 

Phenolic timing gears?!?!  Well, every engineer makes mistakes, including those at Ferrari.  At least it isn't as bad as a faulty clamp on a 10 Billion Dollar telescope. 

 

On Tue, Nov 23, 2021, 8:16 AM George <ygpz4re [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

Rob,

 

Not that it matters, as I'm sure you knew this long before you ever thought about emailing the list here, but the first thing I noticed in your photos was the "096" and "101".  <shrug>

 

But what I'm really curious about is if you've changed out those phenolic plastic timing gears with all metal ones?  When I had the ex-Steve Cook/ex-Joe Martz 308, I did timing belts and changed all four gears (two were already broken) - one of several smart upgrades that engine got.

 

gp

 

 

From: Robert Garven <rgarven [at] gmail.com>
To: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: [Ferrari] Timing Belt Parts Mystery -  Calling Brian

Friends,

I am doing a long overdue major service on my 75 308 GT4, and I have a mystery I think only Brian can solve.

First off a caveat, I order almost all my parts from Brian because he's my friend and has been for many years, but I ordered a set of tensioner bearings and timing belts from Ricambi America, because 10 years ago when I did my timing belt service they sent me a set of  fancyHill tensioner bearings for free. I'm not sure if you remember that time, but me and Peter were going back-and-forth about tensioner bearings, because some of them seem to have be made in China and they were failing prematurely, and were very shoddily made. Hence Hill Engineering in England started producing some pretty amazing heavy duty bearing for the 308. I always try to do what's fair and honest, so when I needed to buy a new set of tensioner bearings I bought them from Ricambi plus a set of belts, to repay the favor.

Everything's been going pretty smoothly but when I went to examine the new belts compared to my old ones I noticed they seemed a bit smaller. I counted the teeth and the new belts have 96 teeth, and the ones I took off my car had 101 teeth!!! Since I have been only person that does maintenance on my car for the last 27 years, I hang all my used timing belts on the wall like trophies, and all of them had 101 teeth also.

My question for Brian is what Ferrari model uses this belt with 96 teeth. One of my Ferrari tech friends said maybe these are the new belts frm Ferrari, but that can't be, as it is hard to get the 101 teeth belts on as it is, so I cant imagine Ferrari changing a part that is so critical. I am hoping Brian knows what is going on here, to solve my problem and so I can speak intelligently to the parts guys at Ricambi.  Also is there any secret date stamp on these belts and how do you read them????

I am not an engineer or a scientist like some on the list, but you could not swap out an engine pulley with one with fewer teeth and have the car run, so likewise you can't replace a belt with 101 teeth  with one 96 and expect the engine to function.

Dazed and Confused,

Rob

I think I self solved this noticing the Ferrari parts number on the Ferrari stamped belts see my last photo?..If I put an F40 belt on my GT4 will it increase the performance! haaaa

Here are some pictures below:

New belts 096 R 254

Belts I removed 101 R 254

Previous belts 101 R 254

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