Re: Classiche certification. (Jeff Kennedy)
From: Erik Nielsen (judge4regmail.com)
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 14:55:13 -0700 (PDT)
Never underestimate the lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe. Especially if Ferrari can sell you the part that they deem correct for the vehicle. That yellow box with the black horses on it always causes the rose colored glasses to come out. Maybe they’re rosso colored. 

And yes, people will pay through the nose for the privilege. The share holders demand the clients are raped both hard and often. 

It’s almost as pathetic to watch as walking through a casino at two in the morning watching the retirees from Reno playing nickel slots with their social security funds. 

Only difference is they encourage you to take pictures on the lawn at Pebble Beach…



On Oct 18, 2022, at 4:41 PM, Larry Bard <larrybard [at] hotmail.com> wrote:


Seems to me there is a meaningful distinction between an original part being replaced with an idential Ferrari part -- but for the serial number, of course, in the case of the engine in question -- and replacement of an original Ferrari part (oil tank) with another that may be cosmetically identical but in fact is far from identical as far as construction.

Of course, just my opinion.

From: Ferrari <ferrari-bounces+larrybard=hotmail.com [at] ferrarilist.com> on behalf of George <ygpz4re [at] hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2022 8:04 AM
To: larry <larrybard [at] hotmail.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Classiche certification. (Jeff Kennedy)
 
I'm not a big fan of Classiche, though I do understand the overarching philosophy which led to its creation.

But here's a few of my own thoughts and observations.

A decade or so back, I was chatting with the owner of a vintage Ferrari race car.  From his words and attitudes, he was also clearly not a fan - AT ALL. (nudge nudge wink wink)  They had installed an improved oil tank for the engine's dry-sump system which was outwardly identical to the original, but internally vastly improved in (iirc) baffling, pickup and return, etc.  But despite the outward appearances, Classiche refused certification.  So, as Jeff mentioned below, the original was reinstalled, cert received, and then the improved version put back in the car.  This was, I believe, prior to annual re-certs.  I wonder now where that car is and if that "new and improved" tank is still in the car.

And with my own experiences racing with FoW...  The 360GTs we raced on '02 and '03 were changed over time, as all race cars are.  At one point, the '02 championship car wore a Classiche sticker on its side.  I can't help but wonder which​ configuration received the Classiche cert (assuming it was certified at all)??

Finally, the car my Dad owned back in the 50's - 250 Europa s/n 0313EU.  In the ~2010-2013 time frame, it was beautifully restored in Switzerland and received the Classiche red book.  But!  Not with the original (stamped "0313") engine - with engine 0331.  So I'm guessing that all that is needed is engine of the same type, vice the exact engine it came with from the factory when new.  But that still seems like a bit of a conflict in my mind.

Why would 0313 be certified with the non-original engine, but the race car could not be certified with a non-original oil tank, even if outwardly identical?  I guess this is partly why the whole program became so controversial.

But, as Erik stated elsewhere, what do I know????

gp



From: Jeff Kennedy <jkennedy.design [at] gmail.com>
To: "Clarence Romero Jr." <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Classiche certification.

Going back to the original question about Classiche Certification:

In the beginning of the Classiche program there were some highly qualified
outside experts involved.  These included Jess Pourret and Keith Bluemel.
They had full access to the historic records at the factory.  As time went
on the certification became an in-house proposition.

Now, one should go back enough in the Ferrari world to remember times of
questionable representations of the cars.  Histories being ascribed to
incorrect cars, restamped engines, components represented as correct that
were not.  Without getting into any names, let's just say that there were
knowledgeable people that found it in their financial interest to make
and/or perpetuate some of these falsehoods.  Plus, one should be aware of
the shenanigans that the factory itself played with renumbering chassis
numbers and such, especially in the 1950s.

So, there can be a legitimate proposition that there should be a way for
correctness to be verified using actual factory records.  Yes, there have
been some questionable certifications they did.  One can also see some
legitimacy to the re-inspection (maybe not annual) to avoid having parts
swapped to get a red book that are removed as soon as the book is in their
possession.  Especially if the car is then for sale representing itself in
a state that it no longer is in.

Has Classiche Certification (as opposed to the Classiche Restoration by the
factory) turned into a profit center?  Yes.

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