Re: [NFC] Four-wheeled brick	<– Date –> <– Thread –>
From: Rick Moseley (ramoselpacbell.net)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 10:06:05 -0800 (PST)

One of the "great minds" I worked with at NTS (now N2S2) put Thermodynamics to me this way.

At best, you can only break even... You can never, ever, win!

You can only break even at Zero degrees K.

You can never get to Zero degrees K.

But there are those who still insist on trying to legislate around this.

On Saturday, December 16, 2023 at 09:51:35 AM PST, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:

From today’s WSJ:

Mary Barra faces big problems at General Motors.

The CEO placed one of the industry’s most decisive bets on electric vehicles and self-driving cars, shrinking GM’s sprawling global operations to help fund an expensive transformation. Now, the twin engines of Barra’s growth strategy—EVs and driverless technology—are stalling out, reports WSJ’s Mike Colias. Barra has said that not as many consumers have been willing to switch to EVs as expected, clouding the future payoff for her bet. GM also invested more than $8 billion to own 80% of the driverless startup Cruise, which has turned into a costly headache with an uncertain future.

Most politicians don’t understand that that the second law of thermodynamics still trumps subsidies. I worked on fuel cells back in grad school in the 90s. Can we get it to work? Absolutely. Is it scalable to mass transit? Nope.

Physics is a bitch. I made the wrong choices in life and she became my mistress. Wife seems to tolerate the relationship.

On Dec 16, 2023, at 11:10 AM, BRITT ROTHMAN <britt2asa [at] aol.com> wrote:

I don’t think anyone will have a choice. Everything is going to batteries like it or not. Somebody will need to start thinking about how to replace battery packs that sre built into the chassis of cars. The cost of the batteries is rapidly coming down but they still wear out due to heat, fast charging, using more than 80% of the gross capacity ect…. Just like your iPhone battery…, nobody is going to throw out a 296 after 10-15 years do something will have to be done to be able to swap in a new battery pack. And seeing that battery technology is changing so quickly, somebody will have to engineer a backwards comparable battery … ( imagine if the total chemical nature of gasoline changed every 8-10 years and your car and all its sensors had to work on this “ new” fuel or you still had to be able to buy the old stuff…… )

I don’t know how it’s going to work out but batteries in cars isn’t going away….. and batteries do wear out…..

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Dec 2023, at 16:16, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Waiting for people to figure out that out for the Ferrari hybrids…

On Dec 16, 2023, at 8:36 AM, Clarence Romero Jr. <clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com> wrote:

Yep and with the hybrid cars as well

Clyde Romero

If you have no enemies

You have no character !

Scars are tattoos with better stories!

When you're out of F-4's you're out of fighters!

On Dec 16, 2023, at 9:27 AM, BRITT ROTHMAN via Ferrari <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> wrote:

It’s interesting to read as I am very familiar with the cell used in the upgraded packs… I believe they are Samsung cells. Ultimately these cells are a chemical reaction and there are of course variances ( sometime large variances) between batches… I guess the buyer of those car is assuming it’s worth buying the car and factoring fitting a new battery pack eventually…

Earlier this year I saw a P1 here in Stockholm which needed a new battery. The original manufacturer went out of business 5 years ago, the custom made replacement was in excess of 400k with installation…. ( it it’s was a lot of installation work…..)… get use to it, batteries do wear out, it’s a chemical reaction, not mechanical amd fast charging and high temps can greatly wear a battery…..

Britt

Sent from my iPhone

On 15 Dec 2023, at 06:27, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az24/arizona/lots/r0019-2010-tesla-roadster-sport/1417022

2010 Tesla Roadster Sport | Arizona 2024 | RM Sotheby's

2010 Tesla Roadster Sport for sale at RM Sotheby's Arizona

rmsothebys.com

"...Addendum: Please note that this car’s battery is no longer operable and will need to be replaced, at the buyer’s expense, to make the car roadworthy..."

Okay. But now?:

https://insideevs.com/news/658962/tesla-roadster-ev-battery-end-of-life/

Tesla Roadster Batteries Are Failing, Revealing End Of Life Symptoms

Original battery packs can go 15 years, but younger upgraded packs are failing early.

insideevs.com

So someone would spend up to $60K for something that could be essentially useless?

Peter

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Re: [NFC] Four-wheeled brick, (continued)

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Mary Barra faces big problems at General Motors.