Ferrari Mailing List: Re: F1 SPOILER

[Azam, Naweed S (Naweed.Azam]

Maybe one of the Italian race stewards drained a few quarts of oil from
Alonso's car when no one was looking before the race . . . 

Naweed.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Liu [mailto:BigHeadDennis [at] earthlink.net] 
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:34 AM
To: Azam, Naweed S
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] F1 SPOILER

Lashdeep wrote:

>The Renault engine should be able to endure any level of effort and
abuse,
despite any setback or penalty. It wasn't.

-------------

Now that's just plain silly.  :-)  

Racing equipment has a finite life, especially in F1.  Teams build
everything to extremely close tolerances, essentially following Colin
Chapman's dictum that the perfect racing car is the one that falls apart
after it crosses the finish line - if it lasts any longer, then it was
built
too well/strong/heavy.  Weight is the enemy, so engineers build things
to
last just long enough (and be safe enough too, of course).  

Want more power but displacement is limited, fuel type is limited,
aspiration is atmospheric?  Add more revs.  But that cuts into
reliability.
So you build the engine just long enough to last for qualifying, and you
swap it out for another one that lasts just long enough for the race.
Wait,
there is a 2-race rule?  Ok, you build the engine just long enough to
last
for TWO races, including qualifying.  But if you have to abuse it, run
it to
the ragged edge, it may not last as long as you want.

Renault built its engine to a certain spec limit.  That spec limit was
their
best guess and compromise - it has to last 2 races, but must also
produce as
much horsepower as possible.  If it ABSOLUTELY must last two races, then
you
opt for lower rev limits and lose power.  If you grant your driver more
power for a goodly portion of a race, then you cut into whatever safety
margin you had built in, and run a much higher risk of blowing the thing
up.

Every team has the ability to build a completely bulletproof motor that
will
last two races.  Heck, last an entire season.  But it would be dead
last.

How fast do you want to go?  Well, how long do you want to dance on the
edge
of the knife?

Renault and Alonso had to dance on the edge longer because they had to
start
from 10th and push like hell to catch up to Schumacher.  That ate into
their
safety margin.  If they had started 5th, they would not have had to push
as
hard.  

Vty,

--Dennis

 

-----Original Message-----
From: LS [mailto:lashdeep [at] yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:08 AM
To: BigHeadDennis [at] earthlink.net
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] F1 SPOILER

Too much theorizing here guys...his motor blew.  It wasn't up to
Alonso's
effort and Renault needs to work on that if a championship is important.

Strategy (rev limits, cruise mode, qual mode) is pointless if your
equipment
isn't designed to entertain all of the possible strategic options when
necessary.

The Renault engine should be able to endure any level of effort and
abuse,
despite any setback or penalty. It wasn't.

I remember the same discussion with the tires at Indy a few years ago.
Michelin failed and all of the teams paid the price. Here Alonso is
paying
the price for an equipment failure. They need to step their game up
because
in racing, there are situations that present themselves that cannot be
planned for or strategized around.

LS


--- Dennis Liu <BigHeadDennis [at] earthlink.net> wrote:

> Yeah, that's my point exactly, Lashdeep - it's too difficult to say, 
> which is why one shouldn't use the excuse, "it doesn't matter 'cause 
> his engine blew up anyway!".
> 
> Typically with race motors, if you cut rev usage by a few hundred 
> revs, you can DOUBLE the life of the motor.  A few laps at the 
> absolute limit of the motor can cause it to expire in a very short 
> time, while those same laps at 99% can cause the motor to last another

> race entirely.  If Alonso had been higher up on the race grid, and 
> managed to get himself behind Schumacher, he would not need to pass 
> him.  Remember, even if he finishes immediately behind Schumacher for 
> every race between Monza and Brazil, he still wins the championship!  
> Heck, even if he finished third or fourth behind Michael in 1st or 
> 2nd, it's not the end of the world -- much better than blowing up your

> engine trying to make it into the points!  Alonso had a great start 
> yesterday, and he's always really good on starts.  So he could have 
> just hit "cruise mode", and saved the engine - indeed, he wouldn't 
> even have to be right on Schumacher's bumper, he would only have to 
> keep challengers from passing him.
> 
> Vty,
> 
> --Dennis
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LS [mailto:lashdeep [at] yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 9:16 AM
> To: BigHeadDennis [at] earthlink.net
> Cc: 'The FerrariList'
> Subject: RE: [Ferrari] F1 SPOILER
> 
> "Which would mean he
> wouldn't have been as hard on the engine, so it may not have blown up 
> - remember, drivers can and often do turn down the wick and go into 
> "cruise"
> mode.
> "
> 
> Understood, maybe it would lasted another 3 laps? It's difficult to 
> predict wouldn't you say? Maybe they went for too much in qualifying?
> 
> Either way, his motor expired.
> 
> LS
> 
> --- Dennis Liu <BigHeadDennis [at] earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> > Rick, one thing to keep in mind.  And please correct me if I'm 
> > wrong, since I'm sure you know much more about this than me.
> > 
> > The "blocking" decision was made by the local race stewards - the 
> > ITALIAN race stewards.  Is there a home team advantage?  Quite 
> > possibly, or even probably.  Let's see - the final race that 7-time 
> > World Champion Michael Schumacher will ever run at Monza, for 
> > Ferrari (which, to Italians, means more than the Yankees do to New 
> > Yorkers x 10), in an almost-dead heat for both the driver's and 
> > constructor's world championships, with no race at Imola next year, 
> > and what native Italian racing enthusiast WOULDN'T decide a close 
> > decision in Ferrari's favor?
> > 
> > The thing to keep in mind is that the decisions made by local 
> > stewards
> 
> > are often against the wishes of the FIA itself, and certainly piss 
> > off
> 
> > Bernie and Max from time to time.  IIRC, a recent decision made by 
> > the
> 
> > local stewards at a race was subsequently overturned by the FIA.
> > 
> > Now, this is not to say that the FIA wouldn't prefer a close battle 
> > to
> 
> > the end of the season for the two championships, but it's nothing 
> > like
> 
> > the NASCAR structure, where one body - or more accurately, one 
> > family
> > - makes ALL of the final decisions.  So while "Formula 1" may want 
> > to see a close battle, I don't think this decision can be attributed

> > to that.
> > 
> > As to my personal opinion as to whether Alonso was blocking, well, 
> > it's certainly well within the gray area.  He was on an "out" lap, 
> > Masa was on his hot lap.  If the clock wasn't ticking down, Alonso 
> > would have gone off line and allowed Masa by, and rightfully so - 
> > any driver on an out lap should not be blocking a driver on a hot
lap.
> > Accordingly, when there is a close call, I think the inference has 
> > to go in favor of the impeded driver.
> > 
> > Do I really think Masa was held up?  Nope.  But the rules are the 
> > rules, and he and Ferrari are battling for every point, so he did 
> > the rational thing and made a protest.  I don't know that I would 
> > have done it, were I in his shoes, but I can't blame him for doing 
> > it (e.g., teams protesting the mass-damper system, dual-brake 
> > pedals, various aero bits, etc.; the rules is da rules).
> > 
> > And Lashdeep, I gotta disagree with you.  Sure, it's easy to play 
> > the "well, it wouldn't have mattered anyway" game, but keep in mind,

> > had Alonso started in 5th, he may have found himself in 2nd or third

> > behind MS, rather than having to work hard to carve his way through 
> > the field.  And since he'd only be down 1 or 2 points, he may well 
> > have settled for that, given the margin he still would have had and 
> > the few remaining races.  Which would mean he wouldn't have been as 
> > hard on the engine, so it may not have blown up - remember, drivers 
> > can and often do turn down the wick and go into "cruise"
> > mode.
> > 
> > Vty,
> > 
> > --Dennis
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: LS [mailto:lashdeep [at] yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 9:45 PM
> > To: Dennis Liu
> > Cc: The FerrariList
> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] F1 SPOILER
> > 
> > Isn't that the evidence of a true and dominating world champion? 
> > Making the whole thing look like a joke? Federer sure did the same 
> > thing later this afternoon.
> > 
> > I think MS did a great job (not surprising). If Alonso had finished 
> > on
> 
> > the podium, I think the penalty may have weighed in, but a blown 
> > engine is a blown engine. Maybe he would've blown it earlier as he 
> > would've started closer to MS (5th instead of 10th) and thought he 
> > had
> 
> > an even better chance of winning.
> > 
> > LS
> > 
> > --- Rick Lindsay <rolindsay [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > Warning....
> > >    
> > >    
> > >    
> > >    
> > >    
> > >    
> > >    
> > >    
> > >    
> > >    
> > >    
> > >    
> > >    
> > >    
> > >      I just wonder how good the race MIGHT have been if Masa and 
> > > the
> 
> > > Italian race stewards hadn't pulled that "No fair! I was blocked -

> > > even thought the draft cut my sector-iii time." trick.  This was 
> > > almost as blatant as Michael's "oops, I didn't do a good turn."
> > > Without interference, the Renault would not have had to push quite

> > > as hard
> > > (read: elevated rev limiter settings) and there might just have 
> > > been
> 
> > > a
> > 
> > > fair fight to the finish.
> > >      Yes, I am an F1 marshal and I know it is all show business - 
> > > but I'd still like to think there is hope for an element of sport 
> > > remaining...  Today did nothing to convince me of that.
> > >    
> > >   rick
> > >   308GTB, SL500, Disco II
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