Ferrari Mailing List: Re: F1 SPOILER

[clyde (clyderomero]

Where did you get that BS from LS?

Clyde
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-----Original Message-----
From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:54:09 
To:clyde <clyderomero [at] worldnet.att.net>
Cc:The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] F1 SPOILER

Renault's job as a competitor is to build a tool that can withstand any
and every challenge that Alonso is presented with during a particular
race. 

Not taking into account all possibilites (starting 10th instead of 5th) is
not understanding your requirements.

"their
> best guess and compromise"

Their best didn't cut it. Good luck to them next time...hopefully they
will have it figured out.

LS


--- Dennis Liu <BigHeadDennis [at] earthlink.net> wrote:

> Lashdeep wrote:
> 
> >The Renault engine should be able to endure any level of effort and
> abuse,
> despite any setback or penalty. It wasn't.
> 
> -------------
> 
> Now that's just plain silly.  :-)  
> 
> Racing equipment has a finite life, especially in F1.  Teams build
> everything to extremely close tolerances, essentially following Colin
> Chapman's dictum that the perfect racing car is the one that falls apart
> after it crosses the finish line - if it lasts any longer, then it was
> built
> too well/strong/heavy.  Weight is the enemy, so engineers build things
> to
> last just long enough (and be safe enough too, of course).  
> 
> Want more power but displacement is limited, fuel type is limited,
> aspiration is atmospheric?  Add more revs.  But that cuts into
> reliability.
> So you build the engine just long enough to last for qualifying, and you
> swap it out for another one that lasts just long enough for the race. 
> Wait,
> there is a 2-race rule?  Ok, you build the engine just long enough to
> last
> for TWO races, including qualifying.  But if you have to abuse it, run
> it to
> the ragged edge, it may not last as long as you want.
> 
> Renault built its engine to a certain spec limit.  That spec limit was
> their
> best guess and compromise - it has to last 2 races, but must also
> produce as
> much horsepower as possible.  If it ABSOLUTELY must last two races, then
> you
> opt for lower rev limits and lose power.  If you grant your driver more
> power for a goodly portion of a race, then you cut into whatever safety
> margin you had built in, and run a much higher risk of blowing the thing
> up.
> 
> Every team has the ability to build a completely bulletproof motor that
> will
> last two races.  Heck, last an entire season.  But it would be dead
> last.
> 
> How fast do you want to go?  Well, how long do you want to dance on the
> edge
> of the knife?
> 
> Renault and Alonso had to dance on the edge longer because they had to
> start
> from 10th and push like hell to catch up to Schumacher.  That ate into
> their
> safety margin.  If they had started 5th, they would not have had to push
> as
> hard.  
> 
> Vty,
> 
> --Dennis
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LS [mailto:lashdeep [at] yahoo.com] 
> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 11:08 AM
> To: BigHeadDennis [at] earthlink.net
> Cc: The FerrariList
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] F1 SPOILER
> 
> Too much theorizing here guys...his motor blew.  It wasn't up to
> Alonso's
> effort and Renault needs to work on that if a championship is important.
> 
> Strategy (rev limits, cruise mode, qual mode) is pointless if your
> equipment
> isn't designed to entertain all of the possible strategic options when
> necessary.
> 
> The Renault engine should be able to endure any level of effort and
> abuse,
> despite any setback or penalty. It wasn't.
> 
> I remember the same discussion with the tires at Indy a few years ago.
> Michelin failed and all of the teams paid the price. Here Alonso is
> paying
> the price for an equipment failure. They need to step their game up
> because
> in racing, there are situations that present themselves that cannot be
> planned for or strategized around.
> 
> LS
> 
> 
> --- Dennis Liu <BigHeadDennis [at] earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> > Yeah, that's my point exactly, Lashdeep - it's too difficult to say, 
> > which is why one shouldn't use the excuse, "it doesn't matter 'cause 
> > his engine blew up anyway!".
> > 
> > Typically with race motors, if you cut rev usage by a few hundred 
> > revs, you can DOUBLE the life of the motor.  A few laps at the 
> > absolute limit of the motor can cause it to expire in a very short 
> > time, while those same laps at 99% can cause the motor to last another
> 
> > race entirely.  If Alonso had been higher up on the race grid, and 
> > managed to get himself behind Schumacher, he would not need to pass 
> > him.  Remember, even if he finishes immediately behind Schumacher for 
> > every race between Monza and Brazil, he still wins the championship!  
> > Heck, even if he finished third or fourth behind Michael in 1st or 
> > 2nd, it's not the end of the world -- much better than blowing up your
> 
> > engine trying to make it into the points!  Alonso had a great start 
> > yesterday, and he's always really good on starts.  So he could have 
> > just hit "cruise mode", and saved the engine - indeed, he wouldn't 
> > even have to be right on Schumacher's bumper, he would only have to 
> > keep challengers from passing him.
> > 
> > Vty,
> > 
> > --Dennis
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: LS [mailto:lashdeep [at] yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 9:16 AM
> > To: BigHeadDennis [at] earthlink.net
> > Cc: 'The FerrariList'
> > Subject: RE: [Ferrari] F1 SPOILER
> > 
> > "Which would mean he
> > wouldn't have been as hard on the engine, so it may not have blown up 
> > - remember, drivers can and often do turn down the wick and go into 
> > "cruise"
> > mode.
> > "
> > 
> > Understood, maybe it would lasted another 3 laps? It's difficult to 
> > predict wouldn't you say? Maybe they went for too much in qualifying?
> > 
> > Either way, his motor expired.
> > 
> > LS
> > 
> > --- Dennis Liu <BigHeadDennis [at] earthlink.net> wrote:
> > 
> > > Rick, one thing to keep in mind.  And please correct me if I'm 
> > > wrong, since I'm sure you know much more about this than me.
> > > 
> > > The "blocking" decision was made by the local race stewards - the 
> > > ITALIAN race stewards.  Is there a home team advantage?  Quite 
> > > possibly, or even probably.  Let's see - the final race that 7-time 
> > > World Champion Michael Schumacher will ever run at Monza, for 
> > > Ferrari (which, to Italians, means more than the Yankees do to New 
> > > Yorkers x 10), in an almost-dead heat for both the driver's and 
> > > constructor's world championships, with no race at Imola next year, 
> > > and what native Italian racing enthusiast WOULDN'T decide a close 
> > > decision in Ferrari's favor?
> > > 
> > > The thing to keep in mind is that the decisions made by local 
> > > stewards
> > 
> > > are often against the wishes of the FIA itself, and certainly piss 
> > > off
> > 
> > > Bernie and Max from time to time.  IIRC, a recent decision made by 
> > > the
> > 
> > > local stewards at a race was subsequently overturned by the FIA.
> > > 
> > > Now, this is not to say that the FIA wouldn't prefer a close battle 
> > > to
> > 
> > > the end of the season for the two championships, but it's nothing 
> > > like
> > 
> > > the NASCAR structure, where one body - or more accurately, one 
> > > family
> > > - makes ALL of the final decisions.  So while "Formula 1" may want 
> > > to see a close battle, I don't think this decision can be attributed
> 
> > > to that.
> > > 
> > > As to my personal opinion as to whether Alonso was blocking, well, 
> > > it's certainly well within the gray area.  He was on an "out" lap, 
> > > Masa was on his hot lap.  If the clock wasn't ticking down, Alonso 
> > > would have gone off line and allowed Masa by, and rightfully so - 
> > > any driver on an out lap should not be blocking a driver on a hot
> lap.
> > > Accordingly, when there is a close call, I think the inference has 
> > > to go in favor of the impeded driver.
> > > 
> > > Do I really think Masa was held up?  Nope.  But the rules are the 
> > > rules, and he and Ferrari are battling for every point, so he did 
> > > the rational thing and made a protest.  I don't know that I would 
> > > have done it, were I in his shoes, but I can't blame him for doing 
> > > it (e.g., teams protesting the mass-damper system, dual-brake 
> > > pedals, various aero bits, etc.; the rules is da rules).
> > > 
> > > And Lashdeep, I gotta disagree with you.  Sure, it's easy to play 
> 
=== message truncated ===


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